I’m very fond of the cut of this Vestrucci suit, and it is more unusual than I realised when I first received it.
Although many aspects are similar to Liverano and other related Florentine tailors, there are small and large differences.
So the shoulders are extended as one would expect, the lapels are also wide, and the line of those lapels is cut straight, so they appear to curve away from the chest.
But the bottom half of the jacket is rather different, much more closed before curving away quickly.
House: Sartoria Vestrucci
Address: Via Maggio 58, Florence
Site: vestrucci.com
Cutter: Loris Vestrucci
Price of a two-piece suit (at time of writing): €4000
This was my first suit from Vestrucci, and was made in 2017. It was begun quite soon after Tommaso Melani of Stefano Bemer brought Loris Vestrucci out of retirement, to try and start a new tailoring house.
Loris is a great cutter – I’d seen the results on my friend Tommaso Capozzoli for years, as he was a longstanding client. And Loris is a great character. Even though he speaks no English, his face is so expressive that you always feel you know what he’s thinking.
The suit, in charcoal flannel, had been something I’d been thinking about for a while. I had a similar ready-made one from Ralph Lauren when I was younger, and loved how it looked with black shoes and pink shirts in particular.
Of course, that didn’t fit very well (I remember the trousers were absurdly narrow) so it was great to get a bespoke update.
Let’s start with those aspects we now think of as ‘Florentine’ style.
It’s particularly significant because it has become something new tailors around the world mimic, in part because the combination of wide shoulders, soft structure and rounded edges is flattering yet not too formal.
The shoulder width on this suit (the length of the shoulder seam on one side) is 6¼ inches, which is a tiny bit less than my Liverano but wider than all the other Italians.
The padding in the shoulder is very light (perhaps a little less than Liverano) and the structure elsewhere similar.
The lapels stand out for their width immediately: a full 4 inches.
However, they look even wider because the lapel is cut straight and therefore rolls up and outwards from the waist button. This means the lapel is initially quite thin.
Two things on the Vestrucci suit then exaggerate that width further. The gorge (where lapel and collar meet) is low and the gorge line (the seam where those two meet) is fairly flat.
Both small differences from the Liverano, but they combine to make that Florentine lapel style even more noticeable.
The foreparts are where the Vestrucci cut stands alone.
Look at the line of the edge of the jacket from the (fastened) waist button running downwards. It starts straight – rather like an English jacket – but as it gets towards the bottom curves away, in a very round shape.
It’s a combination between the formality of English tailoring (and Vestrucci himself talks about English modesty in covering the groin) and Neapolitan curves.
Compared to the visual impression of the shoulders, lapel and chest, this is a small point. But it is quite distinctive once you start seeing it.
The jacket is quite short, perhaps just failing to cover the seat (again something Liverano echoes).
And there is a surprising amount of drape. It’s hidden well, but there is considerable room in the chest and in the back, which combines with the light structure to make the jacket very comfortable.
I think that’s one of the things I enjoy most about the suit. It looks quite smart, but there is real flare in the lapels and it feels easy to wear.
The clothes I’ve worn it with are of course deliberately striking.
I’ve always liked tonal dressing and the ability to wear charcoal cashmere under charcoal flannel is hard to resist. Topped off with black boots and a white handkerchief, it has high impact without loud volume – like the best of classic menswear.
But it would be equally at home with a white shirt and perhaps bronze-coloured knitted tie. And black oxfords.
In fact, I saw an older man in Dulwich dressed just like that recently, when walking back from a badminton game with my friend. My friend’s comment? “It looks like he’s on the board of directors.” Not a bad impression to give.
The charcoal roll neck is from Anderson & Sheppard, as is the white-linen handkerchief, and the boots are the Shannon model from Edward Green. I’ve replaced the original leather soles with rubber Dainite to make them a go-to winter boot.
Style breakdown
- Shoulder width: 6¼ inches
- Shoulder padding: Thin
- Sleevehead: Small roping
- Sleeve: Generous, aggressive taper
- Cuff: 11 inches
- Lapel: 4 inches, straight
- Gorge height: 4½ inches
- Drape: Generous (but visually subtle)
- Outbreast pocket height: 11 inches
- Buttoning point: Low, 19½ inches
- Waist suppression: Suppressed
- Quarters: Very straight, then aggressive rounding
- Length: 30¾ inches
- Back seam: Straight
- Vent height: 9½ inches
- Trouser width at knee: 19 inches
- Trouser width at cuff: 15¼ inches
Photography: Jamie Ferguson @jkf_man
Hi Simon,
Would you mind telling us how much it cost you to resole your Edward Green boots?
Thanks
I can’t remember – it was a couple of years ago. I’ll check
And also where you had them done – very few places seem to do Dainite soles!
Fantastic outfit by the way – very striking. I’ve never quite felt comfortable wearing a rollneck and suit as I worry it looks a bit 70s / Steve McQueen costume. I think the dark tonal colours help a lot here.
https://www.edwardgreen.com/shop/shoes/galway-cognac-cordovan-snuff-suede-tan-82-last.html
Hi Simon, I really like this suit, and also the tonal color palette. Would you wear it with black suede oxfords or black tassel loafers?
I have a question that maybe is off-topic (or maybe universally on-topic). I didn’t find a specific post about it, sorry if it actually exists.
What’s “sartorial truth” about darts on the front of the jacket? (one, two, extended, displaced…)? Are they always used also in Bespoke and MtM jackets? My father says that a jacket without darts looks cleaner and more beautiful (especially with patterned fabrics) but I cannot understand how can a tailor give a shape to the jacket without these cuts and seams (none of us are experts in this field, of course).
Thank you!
GB
Yes I’d wear it with black leather loafers, though black suede might made the whole thing too tonal perhaps?
There is no sartorial truth about darts on jackets really. Everyone will use some combination of seam or dart to create shape – you can do some just through the side seam, but not a lot.
The vast majority of tailors will use a dart and a seam, but some makers – most notably Florentine ones – use just one, leaving the front relatively uninterrupted. That can seem nicer, and is certainly more noticeable on a patterned fabric, but personally I think it’s a fairly small point compared to everything else about style and make in the jacket. I’m certainly not going to commission a suit from a tailor based in any way on that point.
You can, after all, make the back of a jacket in entirely one piece if you really want to.
Thank you, Simon.
GB
Nice breakdown. I find the explanation of the finer points of Florentine style very interesting and useful.
Could you include a profile just of the trousers for these breakdowns (at least when the subject is a suit not an odd jacket). This might be useful to allow readers to see the minor trouser variations you have, and maybe see the effect of varying drape in the material, although I appreciate that it’s not the thrust of the series.
I like the charcoal on charcoal, the three-roll-two, and the suit generally. But the boots seem brave, especially when you have reduced contrast in the top half. Perhaps the photos exaggerate this effect.
The boots are certainly more of a ‘look’. Black loafers would be easier.
Like Shoddy, I’d appreciate a couple of lines about the trousers when it is a suit.
A nice suit. The boots & turtleneck do detract from the review a bit though, as they become part of the focus, making it less easy to really analyse the cut, fit, make etc. For future reference in this series I think it is easier if you keep the rest of the outfit relatively consistent and conservative, so we can judge the suit / jacket for itself, rather than as part of a get up
Thanks. I completely see that, but I do think it’s nice to also be able to talk about a style. Perhaps if they are less tonal there won’t be the same problem.
Although I understand Monsieur Anonymous’ point, you should accelerate making suits look louche and casual. It is really their only future.
Personally I like the cut of the suit and teaming it with a roll-neck works well.
That said, I’d drop the pocket square. It makes the whole thing too twee.
Also it would be good to find a suede alternative for the boots.
Those two minor points withstanding, it’s good flaneuring !
Simon I really like those boots! Do you favour Dainite over the Ridgeway sole for durability?
Generally, yes. I either have this Dainite or a much thinner, unnoticeable rubber
Maybe at some point a post on the different options for soles, especially rubber, would be useful.
Will do
What are those very thin rubber soles called? If you wear out your leather soles very easily, can that thin rubber sole withstand that? Or would it also wear?
And is there such a thing as combining toe taps with rubber soles? Is it redundant?
There are lots of different ones – no generic name like Dainite.
A thin rubber sole will generally last better, but not by a lot. It will deal better in particular with wet, grit etc that can wear down leather. Dainite will last better.
And yes, you can combine both. Metal wears harder than rubber.
I wear down my heel stack a lot by the way I walk. Would you advise putting a bit of metal at the end there too? Or would that cause slippage?
I found out the brand of those really thin zig-zag rubber soles: Vibram. I’m assuming Dainite wears better simply because they are thicker?
I’m debating which one to order because as mentioned above, I wear out my sole.
Yes it does – and yes some of the thin ones are Vibram.
On heels, no I wouldn’t put metal there. It always makes a sound and it’s not great for grip. And rubber soles are cheap, easy to replace, and you can do it forever
So for one staple rain chukka shoe, would you go for a Dainite sole, or a thin rubber sole? I’m tempted to go for thin rubber because Dainite can be quite heavy. Would the shoemaker basically have to cut the plastic Dainite shoe in order to insert a metal toe tap?
Why do you prefer Dainite over Ridgeway Simon?
It won’t make a big difference, but if you want to have the greater protection, go for Dainite.
I find Ridgeway too bulky
I forgot to say I live in California
I’m not sure how much rain you get (SF very different to LA, no?) but I would have thought a thin rubber would be fine
Apologies for continuing on this tangent, but I don’t think there’s an obvious better post to raise this.
I’m interested in your experiences with dainite soles, as I’ve heard variable opinions about them.
As best as I can gather, they seem to be more durable as compared to leather, and particularly so in wet conditions. However, given the stiffness of the rubber, they are perhaps less comfortable than leather soles (which will mould to the foot), and much less comfortable than other rubber soles (which are softer and more shock-absorbing)? I’ve also heard differing opinions for them in winter conditions (I refer to Canadian winter conditions) in that the type of rubber possibly doesn’t afford them additional traction in icy conditions.
Any perspectives you have on them would be appreciated.
I’d agree with the points around comfort – thin rubber would be more comfortable, and probably leather too.
But I find with a big boot like this, you don’t notice it because the boot itself is so thick, heavy compared to a low shoe.
I’ve always found it durable, but then I don’t wear them in icy conditions much
Could you please show us your personal closet sometime?
I’m unsure on whether the jacket would work with jeans. I suspect it wouldn’t, but then again – it might. Seeing that a lighter grey one, like the one from Anthology, would work. Could it be the darkness of the colour that makes it harder to pair with jeans? An obvious aspect is the flap pockets, but flaps could be put inside the pockets making them jetted.
It certainly wouldn’t, no. On grounds of the colour, the material and the texture. It needs more texture, the colour is too dark and smart, and the material is too sharp (flannel is not intended for jackets).
The Anthology was a mid-grey herringbone tweed – colour, texture and material in that order
Another lovely piece Simon.
I have a question that is off topic. In one of your posts you mentioned a tailor in London, I think it was somewhere in Peckham? that works with Knitwear, I have a piece that I need altering, would you mind sharing his details again.
Thanks
The only one I’ve used for altering knitwear is Love Cashmere, in Scotland?
The post ‘Clothing resources’ is the one you want to bookmark there
Hi Simon, very interesting as usual.
Could you give details on the cloth ?
Thanks
Holland & Sherry flannel, 11oz
That’s a very beautiful suit. I would say a flannel suit is one of the great pleasures in tailoring. Comfortable, sofisticated, yet subtle and very wearable. All of those are maximized through a nice cut and fit. This jacket is fabulous. I love the fuller cut and soft curves. However, I find the trousers to be quite narrow compared to the jacket. It almost seems their style come from different tailors. This seem to happen in many of your Italian suits. Don’t you think a leg opening of 15.25 inches is too small for a business suit? 16.25 ~ 16.5 inches would look more proportional while still looking trim. What are your thoughts?
Yes, this is narrower than I’d normally have – a case of trying the house style. I’d normally have 16 inches
Do turn ups look good on dinner suit trousers?
No, generally not. Go with plain bottoms.
This may seem a bit of a funny question but Im genuinely curious. Do you think displaying the groin area through open quarters on a jacket is a more sexy look? What is the purpose of displaying the groin vs. not doing so?
I don’t think anything elegant is going to obviously highlight that, no. It’s more that someone in favour of more closed fronts might just feel it is inelegant to have it uncovered – perhaps akin to unbuttoning shirt buttons. That same someone is likely to want fewer buttons undone as well.
Hi Simon,
Quick question: the folds on the sides of your back – is that a “fault”? Seems a little less clean than some of your other suits.
Cheers,
M
No, there always has to be some fabric there, otherwise your movement would be limited. This is pretty much the same as others, though perhaps shows a little more in the soft flannel
Would you wear dark suede oxfords or loafers with this suit? I ask because I particularly like the combination of charcoal and brown suede. Thanks.
I would wear a dark brown suede, yes
Lovely piece
¿What about armholes? In photos I cannot see it
Thanks.
You mean how high or small are they?
Great looking suit. Would have liked to see the quarters a bit more open and the lapels more generous at the buttoning point, but balance and proportions are spot on. I, too, am a member of the turtleneck and boots club.
Re. knitwear alterations for anonymous: it’s a way from Peckham but try ‘Laine-MadeUnique’ in Brighton. They have a range of older knitting machines that allow for different types of repairs and alterations.
https://laine-madeunique.com/
Nice tip, thank you
Thank you.
Not sure where the Peckham thing came from, I’ll have to scroll back and find it.
What’s Ambrosi’s involvement? Does he make (or wear?) the trousers?
None anymore. He was a business partner at the beginning
Hello Simon. Looking for some advice on deciding on my first flannel 3 piece in VBC. I’ve narrowed it down to either charcoal or a dark forest green. Charcoal is classic, can’t go wrong but I’m intrigued by the dark green but not sure it’ll be as versatile. You have any insight?? Thank you for your time!
Best regards
Hi Ron,
Charcoal would be much more versatile and smart. I’d recommend that, unless you really don’t wear the suit for business at all – not in an office, in a professional capacity and so on. I also wouldn’t get a waistcoat, personally, in the green. I think that might be too much.
S
Lovely to revisit this suit again. It’s definitely up there in my favorite suits you’ve covered list, along with Panico and A&S cord db to mention a few others.
I really like the tonal styling here too.
The only thing that strikes me as a bit off is how low the pocket flaps are on the jacket, but I suspect that’s partly due to my own preference of having jetted pockets on pretty much all my jackets.
Please, could you describe the armholes? high? small? As the result Is it comfortable? .
To show the job of the shoulder-arm I recomend you take one photo whith an arm not attached to the body at least.
Antonio, one of the reasons we don’t go into this in the series, is that it just doesn’t vary much between bespoke tailors.
Most make the highest, smallest armhole that is possible – while remaining comfortable.
Ready made suits might vary more, but it’s not that big a variable with bespoke.
Simon, the suit reviews and these series are excellent reference point for anyone looking to get into bespoke or building on their current wardrobe; particularly because suits tend to be some of the most expensive part of the wardrobe and bespoke has so many variables.
Any plans to cover the W&S suit , It is the one i am looking forward to.
Thanks Ravi.
Yes Whitcomb will be soon.
Very nice! I am a fan of charcoal flannel.
I think the trousers being slightly slimmer than you usually wear are actually very flattering and the suit overall looks nicely balanced.
Reading the comment requesting that you write about the trousers made me think that an important aspect of the suit trousers is how they balance with the jacket. I mean, a fuller cut drape suit would probably need trousers cut fuller in the leg.
But of course there is much less to talk about here than there is with the multiple variables of a jacket.
Hi Simon,
“The shoulder width on this suit (the length of the shoulder seam on one side) is 6¼ inches, which is a tiny bit less than my Liverano but wider than all the other Italians.”
“All the other Italians” includes Panico? (as the shoulder width on the flannel suit he made looks extended)
Thanks. Chris
No it doesn’t include Panico – just because Panico hasn’t been included in this series yet
The diagonal wrinkling on the back from the sleeve upwards is somewhat concerning. Is it a result of you trying to stand straighter than usually, or a permanent flaw in the cut?
It’s a mixture of having a little more drape there than many suits, and perhaps needing to lift the shoulders slightly. But it is slight.
Hi Simon,
you look wonderfully in the suit & roll-neck combination. These photos strike me as the most stylish from the whole “suit style breakdown” series so far. They make me think of Mr. Edward Sexton himself who makes this combination, especially with a DB suit, to look as the definition of sartorial nonchalance.
I’ve been thinking about this combination lately. A fine-knit woollen roll neck of dark colour with a solid worsted or woollen suit (not with a casual one or with an odd jacket). Please, could you comment on (in)formality of this combination? You have the experience of working in professional, serious environment – would this pairing be acceptable? Would this combination be adequate in rather conservative fields (banking, law, top management circles) – of course, if we discount really formal events or occasions (court etc.)?
I mean, given how many poorly dressed men from those fields I still see almost daily (gaudy or boring ties, terrible suit cuts, awful shoes), it would hurt to hear that someone dressed as good as you in this article is inappropriately attired just because of a lack of a shirt and a tie.
Thanks!
J.
Thanks John, lovely to hear.
I think, unfortunately, it would be a little too unusual for most corporate environments. Depends on your office of course, but most wouldn’t see it as a suitable replacement for shirt and tie.
It falls more in the area of suits worn for fun, or for evening, I think
Hallo Simon,
great suit, great combo! Just one question: Do you think it is as essential of the sleeves of a turteleck to show under the sleeves of a suit like the cuffs of a shirt?
Thanks,
Manuel
Not as essential, no, but it does still look nicer
Hello Simon,
Is the length of the trousers you wear when using boots the same when you use lower shoes?
Thanks!
We’ll, ideally trousers worn with boots would be a little shorter, as they’ll hit the top of the boot. But I’m not about to have trousers made just for boots. So you have to live with a little more break. Or cinch them a tiny bit higher
The back armhole looks like maybe he cut it too high and/or without enough slope, causing the fold pointing towards your neck. You can also see it a little in the lower back/waist with the lines also running parallel. With your significant slope (a pain I understand), it can be hard to get it right. I put a tall (at least by today’s standards) pad on my jackets so I don’t have to cut with so much slope. Otherwise a nice suit and a good write-up
Thanks Ezra, but I’d refrain from drawing conclusions like that on fit from static photos. I find they’re rarely accurate.
On a style point, I’d rather not have a tall pad and it is possible to deal with my slope adequately without it.
Thanks
I hear you, and I’m not trying to rag on your suit (it’s very nice), but even from static pics I am fairly certain that the slope is too square and possibly the armhole is too high. It’s very hard to push one’s shoulders down lower than natural, so even though the picture might not have caught you in your exact natural posture, I think there’s a good chance they didn’t slope enough. RE padding, I agree that feeling like a linebacker isn’t ideal, but I use enough that I can reduce some of the slope without making the pad noticeable. I’ve made the mistake of over-padding before and it is definitely annoying.
Honestly, one of your most beautiful suits. Flattering, yet restrained.
Hi Simon, I really like these lapels but don’t understand this words: “the gorge line (the seam where those two meet) is fairly flat”. Could you provide examples of gorge line which is cut in opposite way? I really interested in gorge and lapel architecture.
Hi Astemir,
Actually, I think I might have misspoken there. The gorge line itself – the seam – is not that flat. It actually curves upwards quite steeply.
But the top of the lapel is quite flat. Look at the direction it points, compared to say the Huntsman jacket
Hi Simon, thanks for all of the great content. Among Vestrucci, Liverano and Corcos, which house cut would you say is most flattering for someone who stands 5’8 and has a slim but slightly athletic build? Would age also play a role in the decision?
Those houses don’t have wildly varying house styles. I wouldn’t therefore pick on the basis of any of them flattering you more. Go for the style you like the best, independent of body shape, and the one you feel you identify with and could establish a relationship with
Hi Simon
I am interested in acquiring a two piece charcoal suit. I would like it to have a “formal” look.
Would you recommend any specific cloths?
Thanks for the advice.
David
If you’re looking for more formal, then you probably want a worsted wool, around 11 to 13oz probably.
To be honest, there are lots of good cloths in this area, and the only major difference between them is that some use finer wools – super 130s, 150s etc. If you want it to be hard wearing, and not too expensive, I’d stick to the lower end of that spectrum.
Hi David,
Harrison’s Burley has a book called pioneer that is a worsted flannel about 320gsm. It sits somewhere between a normal twill worsted and a woolen flannel, definitely more formal than a normal woolen flannel (suitable for over 95% of business suit situations) but retaining some of the soft, warm hand and pleasant texture. I’m having a business suit made up in a medium grey at the moment and really recommend it if you’re looking for something similar.
BW, David
Would a chocolate brown brouge shoe work?
Probably not. The chocolate would have to be very dark, and brogues wouldn’t be smart enough probably
Hi Simon, which fabric book is this charcoal flannel from?
Holland & Sherry flannels.
Hi Simon – do you have any thoughts on charcoal flannel vs. mid grey for a suit? Say between the mid grey and charcoal Fox Classic Flannels. Of course you went with charcoal here, but why? Thank you.
Well, I already had mid-grey, so that was easier!
I would say mid-grey is more versatile, but charcoal is smarter. I would suggest the latter is better for business etc, but you’ll find more things you like wearing with the former.
Hello Simon, beautiful suit! I love the texture.
Please forgive my indiscrete question, but how much was the suit? You stated in your article the “price of –a– two piece suit” was 4000Euros. Does this refer to this specific one or is this the starting price in general? Thanks a lot, Michael
This specific one, it was at the starting price
I wonder if this might actually be one of the most low-key flexible pieces around! Entirely at home as a formal business suit, or at a daytime wedding.
Perfect for a date night at a smart restaurant or the opera.
Easy to glam up and relax for a dinner or cocktail party with knitwear.
And the trousers probably wearable as separated too, if not the jacket?
Yes, the trousers certainly are.
Thanks Simon. How do you think the formality of this suit would rate compared to cashmere jacket & flannel trousers, if the suit is dressed-down with knitwear (eg a taupe polo) and dressy boots? I’m thinking that if I already have a navy wool jacket (which can be paired with anything from denim/chinos/flannels/cords…) then actually getting this suit May be a better wardrobe strategy, since it provides a coverage for a slightly more elevated spectrum of occasions. (Rather than going for a tweed or cashmere jacket in grey/brown/green, which provides twice as many smart-casual options; but still leaves the eveningwear bit uncovered)
That’s a good point. I think if you have a outfit you are comfortable with in the suit that doesn’t involve a tie, it’s much more versatile
Hi Simon,
I’m personally rather fond of blown paisley ties; worn while minimising patterns elsewhere, they add great interest, I think. I’ve had rather dark ones so far. Now, I’ve discovered this one, very light a playful: https://www.emarinella.eu/product/archivio-tie-1975-04/
Would you readily pair such a dark, sombre charcoal suit like you wear here with such a lively tie (with a white shirt, let’s say)? Or are such ties best saved for lighter summer suits?
And generally, if I may ask, what do you think of such paisley ties? I do not recall if I’ve ever seen a photo of you wearing such a tie. Too much dandyish for you?
Thanks!
John
Yes, I’m afraid they are a little dandyish for me, so I might not be the best person to ask. The only ones that appeal to me really are the dark green or dark purple Ralph Lauren versions. And even then I know I probably wouldn’t actually wear them
Together with the other outfit including this suit (tonal grey tie) this must be my favourite “suited” look of yours. However, as an evening look, probably worn indoors, won’t it easily become uncomfortably hot? Would you wear it in a cozy bar, or your “steamy social experiment” for instance?
I guess this is just a question of the practicality of flannel in heated interiors – I’m trying to decide whether a flannel suit makes sense for me at all… would you say a normal worsted, or say a VBC 4-ply, with a turtleneck (in similar colours and styles) wouldn’t change the look too much, while remaining cooler indoors?
I’d be absolutely fine in it indoors, but I guess it depends a little on how hot you run generally.
No, those other suitings would be sharper and feel a little different.