*Note: The source of the material for the trousers has been corrected, below. It was Zegna denim, not Loro Piana. Still not available though!*
We haven’t done a simple outfit post in a while, so let’s talk about this one - worn for a recent interview in A Collected Man magazine.
The jacket is my W Bill tweed from WW Chan in Hong Kong, which I was pleased with at the time and have only become more so since.
The fit is good, and the style exactly what I prefer today: wider shouldered, lower buttoning, smart but still soft. It’s not a cut I’d wear with jeans, but it’s perfect for everything else.
There is a bespoke elegance to a fit like this - it’s undeniable when you see the cleanliness of the back, or the 3D shape through the shoulder, sleeve and chest. But it’s very subtle. There’s nothing like a big shoulder, dramatic lapel or DB fastening to catch the eye.
For how I like to dress, that’s ideal.
When I first reviewed the jacket, I showed it with a slightly unusual indigo striped shirt. In a subsequent article on shirt collars, I wore it with the most simple of combinations: a blue shirt and grey flannels.
The outfit today shows one more aspect of its versatility: the dark, cold, muted tones that I often favour, and have covered in several recent articles (see ‘Warm and cold colours’ and ‘The cold-colour capsule’).
The colours are very similar to this outfit, worn with last year’s Donegal Coat; the sweater is just charcoal rather than grey, and the trousers wool twill rather than denim. See also, the studio outfit shown at the bottom of this post announcing the Wax Walker. Charcoal, cream and brown again.
For some reason this never feels boring or repetitive to me. Perhaps because I grew up wearing a similarly narrow spectrum for work in an office: grey or navy suit, white or blue shirt, black or brown shoes.
The cold-capsule combination of brown, cream, black and grey or charcoal feels similar, just not as business-y. It’s also not something I see other people wearing that much.
As a result, playing within a little world like this - and in the process focusing more on cut and texture than colour and pattern - feels both easy and personal. Which is a very appealing combination.
The outfit as a whole also feels cozy and comfortable. It’s perfect for those that have become used to clothing that is soft and unrestrictive over the past 18 months.
The cashmere roll neck is warm and reassuring, while the jacket over the top is cut loose - so it doesn’t pull at you even when buttoned. And the coat is a spongy blanket to wrap everything up in.
There’s no hard shirt collar at the neck. The only place you feel held at all is on the waistband of the trouser. And there’s the option of a cashmere beanie folded up in the pockets, to be taken out for cold, wind or rain.
The shoes aren’t sneakers, granted. There is no foam insole or cushioned sole. But these loafers have been worn and cared for long enough to be comfortable all day. And there are unlined versions too, such as these (same shape, just no tassels) which are more comfortable still.
And if you can’t live without sneakers, I find the same combination works with smart chinos like these from Rubato and clean, slim sneakers like these from Mizuno/Margaret Howell. I’ve worn that combination too, and found myself sprinting for the bus a couple of times.
The only thing I’d change in that combo would be a thicker gauge roll neck, or a lambswool one, to fit the casualness elsewhere (eg this Rubato).
Speaking of roll necks, the one thing I find can harm their versatility is that they can look flimsy, even feminine, on their own - without the jacket.
That’s certainly the case with the thinnest ones, such as this fine gauge from Edward Sexton, which I have in navy, or the mock necks from Michael Browne. The charcoal one I’m wearing in the pictures is a two-ply from Drake’s, which is just about OK.
Anything thicker and chunkier looks great without a jacket on top, but then it’s so thick that you probably couldn’t wear one anyway.
One suggestion is to push the sleeves of the roll neck up, to the same kind of length as you have when you roll the sleeves of a shirt. It stops the knit being such a big block, and makes it a little more casual too.
The coat, of course, is from Connolly. I’ve had it a few years now, and originally covered it here.
Connolly continue to carry the design in different fabrics, but there are no plans to stock this particular version. Still, the PS Donegal that’s coming this October will also be a mid-grey herringbone, and do the same job while being less unusual in style.
The trousers were made by Pommella, in a wool twill from the Zegna Woollen Denim bunch. I don’t know why it was in there, as it’s nothing like denim, but in any case this cream isn't available by the cut length, I'm told, only as a roll for brands etc.
I love these trousers - I think they’re a great example of tailored trousers that make an entire outfit elegant on their own, something Manish talked about in his recent article. I think this pair are one of only two or three I’ve received multiple compliments on.
So I’ll let readers know if I ever find someone offering the cloth again. And if anyone else does before me, please let us know too.
As mentioned, the pictures are from an interview in the watch magazine A Collected Man, available here.
It covers some interesting areas. There’s always a little bit about my background and PS origins in these articles, as they’re aimed at non-PS readers. But that is minimal here, and we also cover sustainability, primary/secondary interests, and modern media.
Photography by Jonnie Craig
Hi Simon,
Nice to read a new article about an outfit, they’re always a great source of inspiration! (looking forward to filters on the lookbook)
Thanks!
Black would work, but it would be a stronger look, more striking.
The cloth is a lot smoother and finer than that Fox one. Not dissimilar in texture or colour, but more fine worsted than tough woollen
That was meant to be “rewoven” not “removed”
Nice pictures and well-written article. It may be the light but I think that the contrast in the first picture may be too high. A very dark top with quite light trousers. Another question. You are linking to the Michael Browne mockneck. It seems to be very nice knitwear but the price is extremely high. How would you describe its value?
Best!
Hey Carl,
Yes the contrast in the outfit is strong, which does make it more unusual and striking.
Still, I find i like being striking with very muted and textured materials, if that makes sense. As opposed to, for example, wearing navy against cream, or tobacco brown
The mockneck is a very fine make, really the best you’ll see, and the finest fibres too. Still expensive, but Michael was really aiming there for the best you could possibly make, in the same way as the tailoring
Hei Simon
Is it just me or is the image on homepage for this article just a placeholder?
I must say I got a bit of a scare looking at the coat, I’ve been waiting for new donegal coat for a while thought maybe you decided to mix things up. Glad it isn’t so. By the way could you perhaps disclose if we can expect the new donegal coat this week or next?
It was yes, that’s fixed now.
We should have news on the Donegal next week
Alas! Alack! Good chance to hone my patience. Looking forward to news!
Looks very nice, but I wouldn’t exactly call this a „winter outfit“, as the near-white trousers and socks, as well as the thin-soled loafers won’t get you through a European winter, even if you only walk from your doorstep to your car.
I think that presumes rain or snow or something. There’s no issues with cold, so as long as it isn’t raining, and you’re in the city rather than the country, I think it’s fine
There seems to be a presumption that white or cream can’t be worn in winter. I think that when paired with muted colours like here it works quite well. It’s unusual without being strange or loud.
I agree with Andreas. If you stand, or even walk, outside (even on a dry day) in winter the cold can really seep up through a thin sole (or even a normal sole, say 14 or less) and make your whole body incredibly cold, however many other clothes you are wearing. I find double sole shoes, though not elegant, a great help. But maybe this is personal and this is all about me!
Interestingly I find feet very personal Triskel, yes. My feet never get cold – the risk is always them getting too hot. I can’t wear thick wool or cashmere socks.
But others I know are the opposite. I imagine it’s to do with your circulation, in the same way some people get very cold hands and finger tips in the winter
Hi Simon – part of one of your responses in the Collected Man interview made me wonder – “as we just don’t have many good suit factories here, for example” – do we have any suit factories in the UK currently (as in, making RTW as opposed to tailor’s workshops making bespoke or MTO)?
The last one was Cheshire Bespoke, the old Chester Barrie, I think. And the last I heard that wasn’t in business any more either
Cheshire Bespoke went out of business a few years ago. The website of Tony Lutwyche’s tailoring business has disappeared. Wensum Tailoring, along with its brands such as Bladen, has gone out of business too.
BTW, Simon do you use cookies, especially tracking cookies, on Permanent Style? If so, is it possible to decline them as required by UK and European law?
Thanks Gary.
And good point on cookies. That should come up for all new visitors, so you can decline them, but I haven’t seen it for a while. Let me check why
Cheers Simon. I hope I’m not the only one here who finds that rather sad; the idea of the last factory in a country producing a particular product closing it’s doors forever!
Gary – thanks also. On Wensum, I believe they just closed down their UK factory (in Norfolk, IIRC) and moved to Mauritius, where they’re still operating. I was told some time ago they make the RTW lines for G&H and Richard James; no idea if this is still the case.
Yes I think it is sad Alex, though it has happened consistently for a while now.
Wensum have operated out of Mauritius for a while, and haven’t had a UK factory for a long time I don’t think. But the company recently became insolvent. Lots of people used them.
What brand / model / colour are the socks Simon? Thanks
Anderson & Sheppard. I think it’s called beige, their long cotton ones
I think we will see more of these high contrast, quality outfits in future. These are both comfortable and stylish. It’s so easy to smarten up or down and wet – proof with boots.
I have worn a green wool cable knit under jackets for a similar style.
So I have a couple of questions:
1. How should a jacket be cut if it needs to be worn with jeans? I understand that a jean hangs differently when compared to a cotton or wool or a linen trouser. So a jacket must be cut differently
2. What’s the best jean fit that one must go if one wishes to wear it with a jacket?
1. Softer and more rounded, essentially. Less padding in the shoulder, less if any roping, a softer canvas probably, more curved lapels and more rounded fronts. Also often a touch shorter. Worth looking at this example too
2. This is harder, and does vary more with styles. You can get away with more variation. However, generally what you want is moderation: not too skinny, not too baggy, not too short and not puddling on the shoes either. A higher rise helps to work with the jacket cut.
Simon, one of the reasons I have enjoyed PS for so many years is your almost Japanese like attention to detail. Your point about pushing up the sleeves of a roll neck is a perfect example. Great point that only you would have thought about. Keep them coming !! Thanks again..
Oh good!
I must do something more on that point at some stage – like a ‘how to wear’ covering things like rolling up shirt sleeves, putting hands in jacket pockets, leaving jackets open, etc
Do you think that would be interesting?
Yes, definitely. Also, when to roll jeans etc.
Oo yes, good point
As long as we don’t go into rolling up jacket sleeves as in Miami Vice (the 80s version)
Personally I think that sort of stuff is best if it comes from within…it would be a reflection of your style, attitude, comfort etc. Do men really need to be to told how best to roll up sleeves, or how to stand with hands in pockets? It’s best if it comes from the individual, otherwise it loses its nonchalance and looks contrived.
That said, a scientific analysis of who does what and what image it portrays would be interesting.
I know what you mean Zo, but I think it’s a balance.
On the one hand, you don’t want to try and stand, use your pockets, or roll your sleeves just like someone else does, and feel uncomfortable or look contrived as a result.
But on the other, it’s perfectly possible to adopt a little way of doing things, and for it very quickly to feel personal to you, and not look contrived.
For example, the reason I roll my shirt sleeves in a particular way is just because my father did so, and I mimicked him. There’s no reason you can’t do the same with other people. Just don’t take it too far.
Yes it would be helpful if only to give a view as to how something drapes well or is of some purposefulness. But as Zo hinted this does come from within & we don’t want to be clones all striding, standing or sitting in a standard way, we need to develop individuality ourselves. I will for instance not wrap knitwear around my waist under a jacket, have turnupped jeans like John Wayne nor place my leather gloves in my top jacket or coat pocket- all too contrived & dandy. But observation on such matters might make readers be more introspective about bad habits they’ve picked up – hand in jacket pocket & thumb left out (POW), use your trouser pocket, that’s what they are for & why we have vents on jackets.
I’ll look forward to such articles Simon, then watch for any avid PS readers in the streets.
Is that photo-shoot recent? If so, you must have only narrowly missed having “007” plastered in the background of every shot…
No, it was actually from a long time ago, back at the end of the winter this year. But the magazine delayed it because they wanted to use it to launch their redesigned website
I find that trousers which break lightly on your foot (as these do) look too short at the back unless they’re very “skinny” – the male calf muscle sometimes hoists the material up from the heel especially after walking. Suddenly, viewed from the side the trouser bottom looks like it slopes up to the back and the overall look becomes a bit “off”, maybe even comical.
The first top-to-toe photo in A Collected Man (where you’re side on to the camera) shows this effect.
A military hem tends to solve this – even just a ½” drop at the back can make all the difference. What are your views on this?
Well, a slanted hem like a military hem is of course only possible to a limited extent on a cuffed trouser. When you have a turn-up, that turned-up material can’t be on a diagonal much before it starts distorting the trouser.
So although I do often have a slight angle, if you like cuffed trousers and don’t like a length where the trouser really sits and breaks heavily on the shoe, this issue is unavoidable. I don’t mind it really – certainly, it matters to me less than not having a cuff, or having a different length.
Very handsome outfit. You mention the cut of the jacket isn’t one you’d wear with jeans which begs the question- what’s the best cut for wearing with jeans?
See comment above DKP… That’s a fairly brief summary, let me know if you want more detail.
Simon – the jacket looks great and I’m pleased to see you still rate Chan very highly. They’ve made for me too and I think they do good work.
Perhaps this is a topic for another post, but after all your experience with other tailors, I’m interested to hear your perspective on how Chan compares. They’re on the more affordable end of bespoke, but if you’re so pleased with their fit, what are the reasons why someone would pick one of the very high end tailors instead? A particular house style? A more flamboyant cut? (And this is not about Chan specifically. The same goes for the other Red Gang tailors or even the reliable but unflamboyant City tailors)
Hey David,
Yes, I really do.
The question is good. I think a full post would be interesting, but the main things will be style, followed by access, and then possibly finishing.
Style – I love this cut, but it’s not the very casual Neapolitan I’d wear with jeans, nor a more structured and linear Sexton. So I might pick others for a style
Access – It’s always going to be nice to use someone more local, even just for things like repairs, alterations etc
Finishing – This was very good, but still not at the level of a Caraceni, Cifonelli, Michael Browne etc
I wouldn’t put the City tailors in the same bracket at all, by the way. There you’re really talking about a lower quality level usually
Superb outfit! I particularly like the trouser cloth. I’ve been looking for a cream or pale beige wool twill in a medium weight (around 290-400 g) but haven’t found one. The gabardines I find are all 250-260 g and don’t have much body. I’m looking for something lighter than cavalry twill, which is too heavy for the warmer half of autumn and winter. Do you have any suggestions?
No, sorry Matt. I would have recommend this one in a heartbeat, but it’s not available any more
Hi Matt
Drapers have 11oz gaberdine and 70:30 Wool:Cotton options that you might like
https://drapersitaly.it/it-it/collezione/12001/
https://drapersitaly.it/it-it/collezione/12020/
‘One suggestion is to push the sleeves of the roll neck up, to the same kind of length as you have when you roll the sleeves of a shirt.’
Do you ever find this ends with the jumper cuffs becoming stretched out? I find it does and then ends up sliding down my hand.
That is a risk Aaron, yes, though I find it usually comes back when you wash it. Indeed, a little steaming will often have the same effect.
I find the biggest issue is it shortens the sleeves a bit (again, until wash or steam) so I tend to do it less with knits where the sleeves are already a bit short.
A little off topic, but colour related. Which of the Fox teba’s would you go for colour wise (grey herringbone, brown herringbone, char brown – https://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/collections/jackets).
I have my eye on the char brown which i think is a similar colour to the jacket you’re wearing here. Based on this article I take it you think it works with cream and grey trousers? Do you think it would also work with raw denim and maybe navy (or even olive) trousers?
Thanks!
I like them all to be honest.
The colour is quite similar to this jacket, but it’s a flannel, not a tweed, so there’s less going on. I actually have trousers in that material, shown here.
I suspect the flannel might mean it’s better with smarter trousers and less so denim. But I haven’t seen it in person so hard to be sure.
If I may, I think the JLC is too dressy a watch to wear with this outfit. Better suited to evening/DJ wear. Your BLRO would be OK, but something more “stylish”, such as a Panerai or Bremont would go even better. Although I know watches are not a primary interest of yours.
Hi Peter,
I know what you mean, but personally I like the slight contrast of a dressy watch like this with more casual materials. As long as the colours of the metal and the strap work, I think it elevates the whole thing. I even like wearing it with something like black jeans and a nice grey cashmere crewneck.
Panerai or Bremont watches have never really been my style.
Yes, I like the sound of the Reverso with black jeans and grey cashmere. But then the question is what colour shoes? I was looking at the JLC on an Ostrich strap the other day, which would certainly be less formal than black, but perhaps a touch more versatile.
Well, black leather or suede is the obvious choice, but actually I quite like dark-brown suede with black jeans (or indeed other black trousers) as well. And I don’t think it matters if a watch strap doesn’t match shoes and belt – they’re too far apart from each other.
What colour ostrich? Surely that makes the biggest difference.
Yes, I would definitely go dark brown suede. Black leather in my eye is too formal to wear with jeans.
The ostrich is hard to describe, but if I said matte, mottled pigskin colour does that make sense?
I guess it does, yes.
I know what you mean about black, but I think it can be nice with dark denim in an Ivy fashion – eg white socks – and with darker or muted colours
Yes, sorry, but we were talking about black jeans. Agree black penny loafers may judge about work with dark denim.
Of course, sorry. Still, I might wear black leather or suede loafers with black jeans too. Just more of a look.
Also canvas sneakers etc of course, if more casual. Doek, Vans etc
That is great, cheers,,,,
Damn you Simon – after seeing that coat, you sent me on a quest over the last three years to get my hands on one because, as you stated, they no longer make it using that particular cloth; I finally managed to find a mint condition secondhand one that I snapped up immediately and wore out for the first time this week (to a film premiere no less!) and the amount of compliments I received for it were unprecedented… I must admit I love the weight and fit of it too, it’s very ‘roomy’ but still drapes beautifully.
Kudos to your wonderful, wonderful taste good sir!
Hello Simon,
you mention your preferred color scheme is cream, charcoal, dark-brown and black. In this outfit the cream can be found in the trousers. In other posts you wrote, cream trousers are best suited for sunny days.
How would you change the colors of the items, if the day is not sunny, rather dark and cloudy? This effects especially the trousers. Would the cream trousers be to light? Or would you let out the cream item and use another color instead?
Cheers,
Stephan
Yes, cream is usually nicest on a sunny day. But there’s no strict rule, just a nice effect to observe. I’m still happy to wear cream sometimes on an overcast day – it just stands out a bit more, looks a little more striking.
If you did want to change the trousers, then yes it would be a little tricky. But there are a few things you could do:
– Wear light-grey trousers, so not too close in colour to the roll neck
– Wear mid-grey trousers and swap the knitwear, perhaps to black or even to cream
– Wear mid-grey trousers and wear a white shirt. If that’s too cold, perhaps a black or cream crewneck over it
Interesting thoughts, Simon. It seems, you can never have enough different grey toned and cream colored clothing items to be versatile. This seems to work especially with neutrals.
It seems, that different tones in colors are unusual. I think of pale/light red/yellow etc. Therefore you are limited, to apply this?
Would this apply also for the neutral tan (lighter, mid to dark)? How would the color-scheme change, if tan comes into play instead of cream?
Cheers,
Stephan
Do you mean different tones of colours in the same outfit? Yes, generally those are a little harder to put together than different colours entirely.
If you use tan it all works just as well, the look overall just becomes a little less striking
Hi Simon,
Is there ever a suit/roll neck combo that you wouldn’t pair? To say it another way: the combos above are decidedly casual compared to a 2-piece suit so assuming the roll neck is of a fine enough gauge and made from something like merino, is there ever a suit that it just wouldn’t fit with? Is the smooth texture of worsted too formal to be paired with a merino or cashmere roll neck? Of course this question is predicated on understanding more nuanced details such as the fit and design details of the suit. But let’s assume the suit is of a softer make like many of your Italian-made ones rather than a Sexton or something very structured.
I don’t think the smooth texture of worsted is too formal for a merino roll neck, no.
There are ways the roll neck could be too casual – if it was chunkier, a heavier gauge for example – and ways the suit could be too casual too – if it was a hairy tweed, it might be better suited to a cashmere or less smooth piece of knitwear. But there is a good amount of overlap there.
Revisiting this article as inspiration for “Winter off-white” trousers.
Such a shame that this fabric is no longer available to those who can’t stretch to € for the fabulous quality at Pommella.
Simon- what do you think of these as an alternative? How would the colour compare? This pale bone of yours seems quite bright – is that correct?
https://rota-pantaloni.com/products/light-beige-pair-of-regular-fit-cavalry-twill-wool-trousers?variant=30064959979595
These look quite similar, yes, though it’s hard to tell online. These beiges and greiges look so different with just small changes in the tone
Hello, Simon. Apologies for bothering you with a follow on question regarding the trouser fabric. I have some trousers made with the cream Fox Flannel similar to what I’ve seen you wear. You have noted before that you find these more wearable, and I remain intrigued by them. Given that you have both the Fox twill and Rubato’s ivory chino, how would you best describe the color of this Zegna “denim” in comparison? More cream like the fox, or a touch of beige/grey like the Officer Chino? If not convenient to compare directly, I understand – but these Beige/Grey fabrics are hard to visualize as very smell differences in tone seem to make a huge difference in the final result.
Yes I agree, they are. I’d say these are most similar to the Rubato chino
Hi Simon
I have some char brown flannels on the way and am wondering what jackets you wear with yours other than mid grey herringbones? Would Charcoal Donegal tweed work? Is that also versatile enough to pair with jeans?
Yes, charcoal donegal should be nice, any shade of grey really, then also navy and some greens
Simon – do you think Rubato’s “boxier cut, shorter length with a strong rib” aesthetic works well with roll necks? This may be just in my head, but the tall neckline of a roll neck seems a bit incongruent with a shorter length – feels top heavy if you know what I mean.
I am debating between roll necks from Rubato, Luca Faloni and Colhay’s to wear as the outer layer on their own. Leaning towards Rubato for the same reasons you list here (2-ply LF/Colhay’s may be too thin/insubstantial) but hesitating because of this. And of course a milder concern that lambwool would be scratchier than cashmere.
So would you still recommend Rubato for rollnecks? Or stick to v-necks with Rubato, and go LF/Colhay’s for rollnecks? I would be ordering online just based on pictures so any insights would be much appreciated.
I think Colhay’s and LF might be too thin on their own as an outer layer, as you say.
The Rubato style can look great with a roll neck, if the length suits the trousers you wear and so on. I wouldn’t have any concerns there. Lambswool could be a concern, but it’s hard to give advice there because it’s personal. So that last one would be my greater concern there.
I might look at something chunkier, like a Brycelands or even a Drakes perhaps, if you wanted less of a short cut
Hi Simon,
Would you think that a 4-ply cream/off-white fabric be suitable for trousers like the ones you are wearing here? Would it have any benefits/downsides?
That sounds nice David, yes, although is it wool? Is it worsted/smooth? Are we talking a high-twist suiting-like material?