This is a summary and analysis of the high-twist wools available from different mills and merchants.
As with the linen one we did last year, the aim is to set out most of the range so that bespoke customers know if their tailor is missing something; and then to explain how the various bunches differ - so they know whether they care.
Along the way, we explain some interesting things about how high-twists vary by weight, yarn and finish, and the different oddities like mock leno, stitched hopsacks and twist flannel.
High-twists are fantastic for trousers and suits to be worn in hot weather (a bit too sharp for a jacket on its own), and as a result most mills offer them.
It’s worth remembering, therefore, that one high-twist doesn’t necessarily differ much from another: the mills are not trying to compete on the cloth itself; they just have a high-twist bunch in order to present a full range.
If nothing below stands out for you as separating the different bunches - and you can’t feel or sense a difference when you see them in person - then I recommend picking on personal experience. Either yours, or someone you know.
The methodology
Below the different high twists are set out as ‘qualities’.
A quality is a cloth that only varies in colour and pattern. So a bunch might contain one quality (like Spring Ram) or several (like Finmeresco) with differences not just in colour and pattern, but also weight, weave or something else.
We have organised the qualities by starting with the ‘core’ high-twists, in mid-weights, then setting out the lighter and heavier options, and finally summarising the other little variations.
So, first the core high-twists. These are all plain-weave 100% worsted wools, with a weight between 10oz and 13oz.
These are the qualities and bunches I would always suggest that readers look at first, and commission first if they have never had a high twist before - whether for a suit or for trousers.
Fresco
Merchant: Huddersfield Fine Worsteds
Bunch: Fresco III,
Weight: 9/10oz / 280/310g
The classic, Fresco is so well-known that it has almost become generic, with other high twist wools often referred to as ‘fresco’.
It also seems to make up an ever-greater share of the HFW range, with the brand new Fresco Select bunch introducing further colours and patterns.
I generally find Fresco to be among the scratchier of the core high twists (see Ambrosi example here), but that also usually means better performance (breathability and crease resistance). It is also softer now than it has been historically.
Finmeresco 4- and 3-ply
Merchant: Smith Woollens
Bunch: Finmeresco
Weight: 13oz / 360-390g for 4-ply, 9-11oz / 280-310g for 3 ply
The Smith’s equivalent of Fresco, Finmeresco is notable for being in 3- and 4-ply options, rather than the standard 2-ply for high-twists of this weight. The extra ply makes the cloth feel a little thicker, but aids performance.
The Finmeresco bunch has five different qualities in it, two of which we have included here. The 4-ply is solidly a core weight, while the 3-ply bridges core and lightweight.
It also doesn’t have a big colour range, sticking with darker, more conservative colours - but has lots of options there, such as the seven blues shown above.
Crispaire
Merchant: Holland & Sherry
Bunch: Crispaire
Weight: 9/10oz / 280/310g
Holland & Sherry’s version is a 2-ply high-twist, and both a touch lighter and smoother than most of the others in this category.
Personally I’ve used it more than any other core high-twist (see Dalcuore suit here), and the range of colours is particularly broad (as with much of the Holland & Sherry range). Only Fresco has the same breadth.
The same quality also appears as a sister bunch called Extreme, which adds an even greater range of colours and patterns, many of them unusual.
Ascot 4-ply
Merchant: Drapers
Bunch: Ascot
Weight: 12oz / 370g
The Ascot bunch from Drapers has both 4-ply and a 2-ply options, with the 2-ply considerably lighter at 8oz/250g.
Although I’ve tried both, I’d particularly recommend the 4-ply, which I had made into a charcoal suit by Sartoria Ciardi. It’s a touch heavier, but for trousers in particular it’s a weight most people can wear all summer.
Spring Ram 2-ply
Merchant: Harrison’s
Bunch: Spring Ram
Weight: 12/13oz / 355/375g
The Spring Ram bunch is a relatively new one in this category. It’s a touch heavier than the others and feels even more substantial than the weight would suggest.
It’s a small bunch and so the range of colours (all plain) is small, but the main selling point is environmental: it uses British cheviot and crossbreed wool, which enables every process from the fleece to the cloth to be done within a 25-mile radius of the mill.
There is also a 3-ply quality that weighs in at 16-17oz, which makes it the heaviest on this list. One for the purists, prepared to put up with the weight for a painfully sharp crease.
Fox Air
Merchant: Fox Brothers
Bunch: Fox Air
Weight: 10/11oz / 285/315g
Fox Air is also fairly new, introduced by Fox Brothers as part of a broadening of its range and inspired by a 1936-38 quality created for humid climates.
The key attraction for me is the colours of the patterns. The harsh colours you often see in other bunches are replaced with soft blues and greys, muted browns and greens. More casual and less corporate.
I particularly like the brown and green for trousers, and had a cream-striped blue made into a suit by Kathryn Sargent (see post here). I found the cloth creased a tiny bit more than other high twists, but I’d still use it again by virtue of the colours.
Tropicalair High Twist
Merchant: Dugdale
Bunch: Tropicalair
Weight: 10.5oz / 300g
The high-twist option from Dugdale Brothers was originally created in the 1960s for the Hong Kong and Singapore market, in response to requests for something ‘linen-like’ in wool.
I haven’t used the quality myself, but it is supposed to be woven slower than most high-twist cloths today - in a method more similar to the original weaving in the 1960s. Although the bunch is big and there are several checks and stripes, the colours are all quite dark and formal.
Explorer
Merchant: Standeven
Bunch: Explorer
Weight: 11oz / 310g
The least-known in this area is probably the Explorer quality from Standeven, which uses a slightly coarser merino than some of the others, in a panama plain weave. It has an especially dry, crisp handle, almost like mohair.
The bunch also includes a lightweight quality at 8.5oz / 240g, which is particularly soft, and a Super 120s quality that is one of the few here to use a finer-micron wool. There are three Solaro-like options at the back.
Lightweight high-twists
If we now go into the variations, the most obvious to look at is lighter weights - as these will be of particular interest to those living in especially hot or humid countries.
The options from the different bunches here are:
Fresco Light (9oz / 280g)
- This uses a finer wool than the standard fresco, helping with the lightness.
Finmeresco 3-ply (9-11oz / 280-310g)
- Mentioned above, in the Finmeresco bunch. Has the same good range of similar colours.
Cape Horn/Summer Ascot (8oz / 260g)
- These are Holland & Sherry’s lighter weight high-twist bunches, with Summer Ascot expanding the colour and pattern range of Cape Horn, as Extreme does with Crispaire.
Eco Traveller (7.5oz / 230g)
- Another from Holland & Sherry, with less finish and a focus on minimising water use as a key selling point.
Ascot 2-ply (8oz / 250g)
- The heavier version of Ascot, as mentioned above. I have a suit from Sartoria Cornacchia in it that I have yet toe feature.
Explorer (8.5oz / 240g)
- The lighter option from Standeven, again as mentioned above.
Tonik Wool (9.5oz / 295g)
- A rare entry here from Dormeuil. The key attraction is that Dormeuil try to replicate as much of the dry, crisp feeling of their famous Tonik cloth but in 100% wool, so without the mohair. The quality also uses Patagonian wool, which is supposed to be more sustainable.
Heavy high twists
All suiting materials used to be much heavier than modern ones, of course, with more emphasis on strength and longevity.
Anyone looking for that more vintage feel might want to look at the heavier high twists - or indeed someone that wants the same look, but to wear in cooler temperatures.
The major options here are:
Fresco 3-ply (14/15oz / 435/470g),
- Still within the Fresco III bunch. Twists together a single and 2-ply yarn of the same yarn quality found in the 2-Ply Fresco
Spring Ram 3-ply (16/17oz / 460-480g)
- As mentioned above, this is the heaviest of the high-twist options, and has a nice heft to it too
Other variations
One of the more confusing things about high-twists is the various qualities that are mixed into bunches, or high-twists that have different uses than the ones we’re used to (suits or trousers).
These include:
Mesh jacketings
- High-twist wool is often used to make a jacketing, just in a more open and often looser weave to make it more suited to a jacket. These include stitched hopsack, mesh and mock leno (above). The Fresco III bunch has a mock-leno quality in it, as does Finmeresco and Tropicalair
Plain-weave worsteds
- These are not high-twist wools, but are often lumped into this category by virtue of their plain weave and crisp finish. They should be treated like a normal suiting. Finmeresco’s Plain Weave quality is an example, as are Golden Fox and Harrison’s Frontier bunch.
Sleek high twists
- Lightweight suitings that are made with a high-twist wool in order to keep some body, but without the dry finish we expect of a normal high twist. These include the Dragonfly and Snowy River bunches from Holland & Sherry, and Capri from Scabal
Mohair mixes
- Using mohair in with the wool to give even more of a sharp line. Treat as a mohair - which you might like or not. Includes Fresco Mohair and several bunches from Standeven such as Cape Town and Carnival
Flannel finish
- High twists usually have a flat, dry finish. Twist Travel Flannel from Dugdale’s is unusual in heavily milling the cloth to give it a fuzzy texture. However, I wouldn’t say it feels like flannel really. Just a softer finish on a high-twist - and perhaps a touch more casual as a result.
Simon all very interesting, but why do you choose to write a piece about cloth oriented to warmer months in July?
Most houses add very little to their core ranges year to year, and so writing about it in January would make more sense.
Any reader deciding to go off and commission something in this cloth today would be lucky to get their garment before the autumn……….
You’re right of course David. This piece was originally intended for the Spring, but took a lot longer to put together than I hoped.
Given most houses don’t vary their high-twists that much, as you say, it will of course still be relevant for commissioning for next year. Or indeed anyone in the southern hemisphere.
Bit harsh. I’ve just ordered a suit length of Minnis Fresco for a suit I’ll be using next year….
Hi Simon, I have question regarding H&S high-twist fabrics, would you prefer their Crispaire or Eco-traveller range for summer odd trousers? Regards Henry
I love Crispaire but haven’t tried Eco-traveller. So I’d recommend the former, but without a lot of context to compare them
Summer in London or somewhere where summer is actually hot? I’ve found Crispaire to be neither particularly crisp nor particularly airy. I would try Finmeresco or Minnis Fresco for a true summer cloth.
For what it’s worth, Peter and Henry, I like Crispaire and have worn in it hot and humid places, from Japan in the Summer to Naples. However, it is smoother than fresco, not as scratchy, and you sacrifice a little bit of the breathability for that I think.
Hi Simon,
Crispaire is lovely but certainly not as opened and breathable than the HFW Fresco. I got bespoke pants in these two fabrics. The grail would be a Fresco with the softness of the Crispaire. Fresco is definitely super scratchy.
Simon, this article is certainly the best I have ever read about high-twist wool. I have a question for you, since I am from Brazil, living in a city that is humid 100% of the year and hot for at least 9 months. I am about to order my first bespoke suit. I have yet to decide if I am going to order a navy suit from a plain weave cloth (like NFW from Dugdale or Frontier, which I assume is a little more airy than regular twill) or from a mid weight high-twist (3-ply Finmeresco or Crispaire). Of course, the suit is going to be quarter lined for more air flow. Do you think the high-twist options would be a little informal (or less versatile/suitable) for a first suit?
Thank you!
Thanks Otavio. No, I think the high-twist options would be fine. They won’t be quite as sleek as some of the other suitings, but they will still look perfectly smart.
Hello Simon, I love the Drapers 4-ply. They drape crisp and don’t wrinkle. How is the frontier compared to it?
I haven’t tried Frontier so can’t compare directly I’m afraid
I’d personally go for the New Fine Worsted by Dugdale (280-300 g). It is is a cool wool, comparable to the Capri Bunch (260 g) by Scabal, right? While I’m happy with the Minni’s Fresco garments in my wardrobe, at the end of the day I find the cool wool much more comfortable. Also, it makes me totally forget what I’m wearing, whereas the slightly scratching fresco in a way makes me feel like I’m attending a formal event. I’m probably going to give the NFW a try myself for next summer.
Hi, Otávio,
I’m Brazilian as well, from São Paulo. As someone who suffers a lot from the heat, I liked the ideia of two different bunches: Cool Effect from Zegna and English Mohair from Holland & Sherry.
The Cool Effect is a very thin and open weave fabric (you can really see through), and it has the additional advantage of the treatment Zegna applies that says it reflect infrared rays. But it is a very delicate fabric, so for your first suit maybe not the best option, unless you will only use the suit every so often.
The English Mohair is very similar to fresco, but it felt less itchy for me and a bit lighter in weight. Also, mohair is a very strong fabric, so it will add some durability to the suit.
Personally, I plan to have my next suit in English Mohair(instead of the Co Effect) mainly because of durability (and of course, the fabric there are lovely).
So, look at those bunches and see if you like. I am not sure whether Simon has an opinion to the bunches I mentioned.
On another noted, where are you from? Where are you going to make the suit?
– What would be the drawbacks of high twists, beyond likely scratchiness ? Does it not move as nicely as normal fabrics?
– Are there no high twist twills?
– do you know the business flair bunch by Zegna? It looks very soft, wondering whether this is high twist flannel.
– is mock Leno not essentially for jackets? Tropicalair ML weave having so much texture for example.
– It drapes well, but will obviously be too cold when the temperature falls. Also a matte surface that some might not like.
– Generally no, it’s better to have them as plain weaves. Largely because twills are denser and the object is to be open and let air pass through.
– No, sorry.
– Yes, it is for jackets. That’s why it’s under the section ‘Mesh jacketings’
I’ve had many suits made up from both Fresco and Finmeresco, and have always gone for the heavier weight, which makes them ideal 3 season cloths.
As regards scratching, I think it’s easy to overstate the problem; makes no difference in the coat if it unlined as you will be wearing a shirt, and if the trousers are unlined you will stop noticing after about 5 minutes.
As to your “cold” comment Simon, these cloths do not feel appreciably different from normal worsted unless it’s windy. They are designed to let the air travel through them.
Thanks Toby. It’s personal obviously, but I find I do notice fresco or finmeresco during the day – if anything, more towards the end of the day when I’m a bit hot and tired.
Good point on the wind. That will be the majority of the problem with temperature
It seems high twist was created to give open weave summer cloths some crease resistance. Then how do Traveler cloths differ from the above? Do Traveler fabrics also breath a lot? What would be wrong with a high twist twill for travelling in normal or coldertempetatures?
Traveller cloths generically, or as a brand?
Nothing wrong with a high-twist twill in those circumstances – it’s just that most people would then go for a normal suiting and avoid any scratchiness etc
Hi Simon,
Great summary. I have a navy 8.5oz hopsack jacket which I currently use year round in NYC. I would like to add another one but for 3 season use. What would you think of the Finmeresco Mock Leno 12-13ozs for a navy blazer like this? Any other suggestion?
Looking forward eagerly for your article on a capsule collection of sports jackets.
Thanks,
I think that mock leno is nice – make sure you see the texture in person and you like it, but it’s good and will perform similarly to hopsack
Thanks on the sports jackets piece. Casual suits coming next though…
Simon what is the difference between the Holland & Sherry Mesh and say the Fresco III Mock Leno? They seem pretty much the same. Any points of difference in formality or performance for say a navy blazer? Thanks.
The mock leno is a particular weave and therefore texture. But it’s minor, and no there’s no formality or performance difference really
Hi Simon, thank you so much for your helpful article. Currently I’m thinking about using Crispaire to make an everyday 2 piece navy suit. As you mentioned in your article, high twist might be too sharp for a jacket. Do you think that might happen to a Crispaire also? Since I might wear it as a jacket also.
Thanks
Yes Derek, Crispaire is a high-twist wool, which is why it is in this list. So the same advice applies to Crispaire – it is too sharp for a jacket. That’s why other jacketing options are included in these bunches (mentioned at the end of this list).
In general, it’s dangerous to try and make the perfect suit where everything works separately (I wouldn’t recommend navy worsted trousers in this regard either). Make a nice navy suit, with no compromises to try and also make into a jacket, and make a separate jacket later.
Thank you Simon!
Linen can work in this regard, I find. Though admittedly it isn’t working as a smart suit, more a knockabout.
I’m always when you hear tailors mention the number of cloths they can make a suit from and the hundreds of bunches .
Do they even use more then 20 or so ? and what is the point of such a large range ?
More specifically I’m looking at taking the big leap and meeting up with Prologue in sept/oct (largely thanks to your writeups).
Would you suggest I do some of my own research on cloths (look online at cloths ) or just leave it to them?
I know. They probably use more than that if you include all materials, coats, weights, patterns etc, but they don’t need that many. I’m also not sure about the merchant business model about being comprehensive, yet known for nothing specific
I would leave it to them largely. Just be clear what you want and what for, and any previous experience or opinions you have
Hi Simon,
Do these cloths crease like linen? I really like the colour of the tobacco linen suit you had made at Dege & Skinner, but would like something that doesn’t crease and is still lightweight. Might this be an option?
Many thanks
Yes – the whole point of high-twist wools is they don’t crease that much, despite being cool.
Not sure it would work in that strong colour though – but have a look
Simon,
Could you please also add the Bard book by Lovat?
Thanks,
S
Lovat Mill are just about to re-issue the Bard bunch but the details weren’t confirmed in time for the feature. It should be released later this year I believe.
Given the wide ranges available I’d rather consult with the tailor/cutter first, though as a starting point the article is very informative. As a follow up could you advise (in an article?) as to how your own conversations unfold. Do you have a pre-existing choice at the start, do you discuss options (a tailor might advise that a cloth type may, in actuality, not drape or shape as well as it comparatively might etc.) or do you rely more on their advice with a few suggestions of your own? Furthermore how much time do you invest in consideration of this, given the central importance of the decision?
Thanks. Have you read the first two articles in our Guide to Cloth? That answers most of these points. It’s in the menu under Guides
Maybe ask a question there of you have any follow up questions?
Hi Simon, just want to add that the Dugdale TropicalAir High Twist book is on the reverse side of the Mockleno book photographed. Mockleno is for jacketings, and the reverse side is for suitings.
Hi Simon,
You didn’t mention any of the VBC tropical worsted fabrics. I don’t think they have a lot but they offer a lightweight 260g option in a few blue and grey colours. They are also 3-ply I believe. Does the 3 ply provide more weight to the fabric for durability?
Also what are your thoughts on VBC tropical vs the other fabrics in your article?
Thanks.
Drapers is the merchant for VBC of course and sells their cut lengths. Not sure if the tropical is all in the Drapers bunch – I can check
Thanks that would be great. I essentially want to know if the tropical weave fabrics from the VBC fabric are in line with the other fabrics in your article.
The Tropical range from VBC is quite large, and some of the fabrics are high twist, some are not. I checked this through with VBC this morning. They generally aim at the same things we discuss here, around lightness and breathability, but some don’t use high-twist yarn. Thanks
Thanks Simon. On the VBC website, I can only see a handful of options under the tropical weave category. Is this just a small subset of what they offer?
How can I tell if a VBC open weave fabric sample at a MTM business in Sydney is high twist or not? I took some photos but am not sure if you can determine the high twist nature by look or by feel/touch. Any tips to work that out would be greatly appreciated. Also, let me me know if I can send through photos if that would help. Thanks again.
I wouldn’t go too much on what’s on the VBC website. That shows neither all of the range that they offer to brands to make as RTW clothing, or the cut lengths that they offer to tailors, usually through Drapers.
And I’m afraid there isn’t really much of a way to tell, certainly just from photos and not that much from just feeling it either. If you don’t know, I would go off recommendations and experience from the tailor, rather than trying to pick yourself.
One last thing, what is the main difference with a VBC tropical open weave fabric that is high twist vs one that is not? Would it simply be the high twist would be less prone to getting wrinkled? Or does the high twist option provide other attributes? Thanks.
In general, the high twist will reduce wrinkling but will be slightly coarser to the touch. But it’s hard to generalise when there are several other variables in there
Thoughts on Davies and sons and Denman and Goddard?
I haven’t tried either, though know Pat well. Quite traditional structured English cut, but can’t say more than that really.
I’m looking to get a bespoke suit but don’t have much money.
Is Grahame Browne of Whitcome and Shaftesbury my best bet?
They’re both great value for money, yes. I’d say three good budget options, with different priorities, are:
– Graham Browne. If you want bespoke, but not quite the same handwork or process as other big houses.
– Whitcomb & Shaftesbury. If you do want all that, but don’t mind that part of the work is done in India. (The quality is the same)
– Saman Amel MTM. If you don’t mind about quite the same level of bespoke fit (though it’s still very good) but want more design and style influence.
Hope that helps
Is there a reason you didn’t pick Prologue here too Simon?
There are a few more people I could have picked – I just focused on the ones that I’d had the most experience with so far
Excellent article Simon, this has helped me understand a little more about high-twists.
I believe the note on your Dalcuore suit under the Crispaire section links to the wrong suit? Was expecting to see that beautiful, dark brown suit but was greeted by your (also beautiful) Drapers donegal.
Ah yes sorry, I’ll correct that
No worries, cheers
Simon, why Dormeuil is a rare entry here, if I may ask? Any particular reason for not featuring them?
They are there – Tonik Wool
Yes, I’m sorry, I should have made it clearer – you prefaced it by saying “A rare entry here from Dormeuil”, so I was wondering if you had somewhat negative view about their cloth.
Btw, I had a suit in Tonik Wool made recently and I absolutely love the feel and the way it wears so far.
Ah, I see. No nothing negative about Dormeuil, it’s just rare that we talk about them.
Great to hear the feedback on Tonik Wool.
I am trying to enjoy the summer. i wonder if you could do an article about clothes for the summer party?
Sure. As in fairly smart party, where some kind of tailored jacket wouldn’t look out of place? Or more casual?
Both would be interesting. But if both then please one article on each. Sure this will be interesting?.
Great post!
I wonder if you have a general opinion on solaro cloth and how it compares with high-twist wools?
I’m not a big fan of the two-tone nature of solaro – though I’d still like to try it out in person.
It is more like a normal wool, it doesn’t have the crease resistance etc of high twists
hi simon,
i’d also like to try it out in person too. what do you think of a navy solaro- so hardly any two town as such?
I’m not sure to be honest. I haven’t seen navy solaro made up
This is another great post on cloth bunches and indeed answers my questions.
Interestingly I visited the Scabal shop in Brussels and was amazed by the silken sheen of the cotton summer trousers.
I wonder what other cloth bunches would attain to this higher cotton quantity which was a very beautiful cloth indeed as was the herringbone cashmere in their “Charme ” bunch.
Thanks again
Lindsay
Thank you Lindsay. To be honest, I don’t particularly like high-shine cottons so it’s not something I can recommend other sources on I’m afraid
I can endorse Holland & Sherry Crispaire, I bought a length (Chestnut Solid Product Code: 337046) which I intend to have run up into a classic summer weight Milanese suit this winter. My advice would be to buy a length you like when you see it as they sell out fast!
I love Fox, I would very much like to see the Fox Air and hope they continue broadening their range.
Dear Simon, thank you for sharing your profound knowledge with us. I’v read a lot of your articles and finally ordered three years ago two suits at one of the savile row house. I opted for an charcoal worsted three piece suit, which became one of my favourites. And for an 13 oz navy fresco DB, which is cut lovely. But I wished I ‘ve got the hint before, that despite the open weave, a suit made of such an heavy cloth isn’t as expected exactely a summer suit.
Yes, 13oz is too heavy for many people in summer, even when high twist.
Thank you, I’m pleased you have enjoyed this and the other posts
Alguna recomendación de Loro Piana?
Any Loro Piana recomendation?
They don’t do a high-twist range consistently I dont think. It’s not quite they’re look, and much of what they have is more seasonal
Hi Somon, very interesting as always, thank you for that.
What about Solaro ? Where do you put it regarding summer fabrics ?
And by the way, could you do an article about ?
Salutations sartoriales !
No problem – there’s a comment above about solaro though
Simon
I’m baffled as to why heavy weight high twists are offered. Minnis have a 14 oz . If the cloth is intended as a breathable summer cloth, why offer heavier weights? If worn in cooler temperatures, wouldn’t the open weave negate the heavier weight?
I think it’s largely because some people want heavier weights because they hang and drape so well. And if that’s what you want, then a high-twist version is what you want in summer.
That’s fair enough. I guess having heavier cloth as cool as possible.
Would a 15.5oz fresco be too cold for a UK winter?
It wouldn’t be ideal, and you’d feel the wind going through it. But with a coat etc over the top it should be ok
The image of the Fresco Bunch reminds me of a question I have had for awhile. I’ve always struggled selecting ‘navy’ from such large books. Any advice on navigating that process?
I’d pick the darkest blue there is. You don’t have to worry about picking something that’s black, as the mills always put ‘black’ on the label to make that clear. And it’s very rare that these bunches ever have anything that’s really midnight blue.
I have a few samples of the Minnis navy and some are indeed midnight navy. Best to order samples, they’re free and will save you making a mistake. You’ll then be able to view the fabric in light and day.
Dear Simon,
How do I check what cloth/bunch/weight etc. my suits are made of ? A few like PZ will have the name of the cloth producer inside, but not the weight, type of fabric, etc. Is it possible to track these down from the markings on the inside labels? Thanks!
Stephan
No, I’m afraid not Stephan. Also bear in mind that only a minority of cloths are offered to tailors to make bespoke. There’s a good chance that if you buy a RTW or MTM suit, the cloth is not available in a bunch
Dear Simon,
If one lives in a place where it doesn’t get too cold (like minus 2-3 at worst), can the issue of ‘4 season wear’ of high twists be solved by extra layering, such as undershirts, cardigans, and cashmere socks in the winter?
Thanks,
Stephan
Layering like that would certainly deal with most of the problem, yes, but you’re still going to feel the odd gust of cold wind that gets through surprisingly easily. In the end no material is really 4-season
Thanks, Simon. Good to clarify that there is no really a true 4-season solution in climes that have all four of them.
Absolutely. You wouldn’t expect any other clothing to be worn in high summer and winter snow
Hi Simon – I know you have experience with Fox Air but have you also made something up in Golden Fox? How would you differentiate between the two along the lines of breathability, longevity, and travel performance (wrinkling)? Would you say one is hands down better than the other for hot weather? I suppose the more general question is whether a lighter weight plain weave worsted could be a better all around choice vs. a more specialized high twist in terms of versatility. Thank you.
I haven’t worn Golden Fox I’m afraid, no. In general, though, no a lighter weight worsted is unlikely to be better in warm weather – the weight is less important than the density of the cloth, which makes it less breathable
Hi Simon,
Very informative post!I have come to appreciate H and S fabrics upon reading your several posts!
May I ask which collection from H and S would you recommend for a (first)suit in a tropical weather like Singapore but mainly in an office(Banking-related field) with AC and also the suit should be good for wearing a least 2-3 times a week and in an understated tone like navy or charcoal?
Thanks.
Andrew
Probably Crispaire?
Won’t Crispaire be too casual for banking office environment?
Am deciding between Crispaire/Cape Horn/Cape Horn Light Weight/Royal Mile.
Also Simon between those H and S fabrics and Zegna Trofeo Summer which is more suited for tropical and humid weather in your opinion?
Zegna will be lighter and finer. It’s a different look, sleeker but perhaps more delicate too. And expensive
Hi, great and comprensive article, thank you very much!
Hi,
planning to have a bespoke suit made, I wonder if there are still those very, very heavy high-twist cloths, I mean such in the 500 -600 g range. Do you know any?
Thanks
Andrew
I don’t know any quite that heavy. There is 430g in the Fresco 3-ply, but that’s it.
Bear in mind that most high-twist cloths are made for hotter weather, and so will be quite open as well, even if heavier. My impression is the older, heavier ones weren’t that open either. So watch out for that in anything you find
No, in a dark colour no one would think it wasn’t sharp and professional I don’t think
Hi Simon,
Thanks for a great article – Just want to clarify – In the first segment of this post you say the following “High-twists are fantastic for trousers and suits to be worn in hot weather (a bit too sharp for a jacket on its own)” and on a readers comment saying he wants to add another jacket for 3 season use you reply “I think Mock Leno is nice”
In your opinion, does Mock Leno have enough texture to be made up as a single jacket to be worn with odd trousers in fabrics such as cotton, linen and wool (tropical and flannels)?
If not, do you have another suggestion?
Best
Yes, Mock Leno does. It’s a high twist, but different from most high twists in that it is specifcally woven to be more like a jacket cloth – more texture, more open.
Thanks Simon – I think its very similar to RJ Ballon in terms of the texture but vastly different in feel where Ballon is quite bouncy with soft feel and Mock Leno scratchy.
Are there any high twists that aren‘t scratchy, that feel similar to normal worsted wools? How soft and smooth is crispaire?
Do you really feel a big difference between a high twist suit and a lightweight worsted wool suit in hot weather?
I do, yes, but it is also cooler when rougher often.
Crispaire isn’t scratchy, and neither is the 2or 4 ply from Drapers
Dear Simon,
I would like to ask you the following questions:
1. Do you have your high twist jackets always unlined?
2. I have a VBC/Drapers 4ply jacket. I find that it offers great wrinkle resistance when wearing
day to day, but doesn’t perform well when packed. When it’s packed, it develops large creases which are hard to iron out. Do you encounter the same issue?
1. Usually, though not if they’re ones I’m not trying to have for really warm weather.
2. I haven’t particularly no, but it is a risk. Crunchier ones like Fresco will do that less, but also be scratchier
Will the dugdale travel flannel runs significantly hotter than say Crispaire / Cape Horn lightweight, given that all of them are high twisted wool and in similar weight? Thanks!
Yes, I think the Dugdale will still wear warmer than those.
Hi Simon, do you think the wool/mohair fabrics in Fresco III might be too stiff and sharp to make into a sports jacket? Do all fabrics in the Fresco III bunch have a mock-leno quality?
Yes, Fresco and in fact most high-twists don’t make great sports jackets. They are designed for trousers or suits.
They don’t all have a mock-leno, no. Only some of them.
Hi Simon,
Is Finmeresco range good to have for trousers? does the cloth feel soft like crispaire or scratchy like Fresco?
Thanks
Rupesh
Yes it is a good material, though it is more similar to Fresco than Crispaire in terms of scratchiness I find
Based on your breakdown of different weight of cloths;
1) Crispaire/Finmeresco/Fresco are summer cloths as they are open weave
2) For cooler months you would consider heavier cloths e.g drapers ascot bunch, flannel, in fact I like Finmeresco bunch, is there a heavier range in these weave available?
3) Are Dakota range from Holland and sherry ideal for wearing 2-3 seasons for example Cavallry Twill in beige?
Thanks
Rupesh
1) Yes, they are open weave and designed for warmer weather
2) I wouldn’t suggest wearing any high-twist cloths, like Finmeresco, even in heavier weights, because they are still open weave
3) Yes, Dakota is great for that range of seasons
I’ve made trousers in Crispaire and Finmeresco. To me, Crispaire feels neither particularly crisp nor airy. Finmersco is both – holds a crease and breathes very well.
Is it not true that you cannot obtain a 13 oz 3-ply Tonik since the year 2000 as since then Dormeuil has only produced Tonik 2000 which is only a 2-ply 11 oz material?
So do you not think that a Fox Air cloth such as this would be good for jacketing:
https://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/collections/fox-air/products/plain-weave-walnut-classic-prince-of-wales-check
If not can you please elaborate on why that is? I think maybe you mean to say it’s too smooth and fine that it looks like a suit, but with a pattern and textured appearance like this cloth don’t you mitigate that problem?
Yes, those things certainly mitigate the problem, but they don’t do away with it.
If you’ve seen this cloth made up as a jacket and you like the way it looks go ahead, but any choice like this from a swatch is a little bit of a risk, and it’s this would still be a bit of a risk. Based on the Fox Air I’ve had as a suit, I wouldn’t want it as a jacket.
Also, at the very least, I’d want the mill to describe it as a jacketing – not a suiting
Thanks, Simon. I was hoping maybe you could elaborate on why you wouldn’t want it as a jacket, but I think I understand where you’re coming from. I’m also not sure I understand your final comment–the mill describes it as “suitable for suiting and jacketing” in the link I provided.
Can I ask what you think about this cloth for a four-season navy blazer: https://www.harrisons1863.com/product/sw2745/.
It’s from the Finmeresco line, which I think many people associate with suiting, but it’s a mock leno weave with plenty of texture that seems made for jacketing and would look odd as a suit in my opinion.
Ah, sorry missed that in the description of the cloth. I always say that if a mill says it’s a suiting, it’s definitely not a jacketing. But if they say it’s fine as a jacketing too, that isn’t necessarily true. You still have to make your own mind up. Also, there are very, very few cloths that really work as both.
Sorry, and yes the Mock Leno is specifically woven as a jacketing, more like hopsack. It would be fine as a blazer. Though not great in really cold weather – the wind will cut right through that!
Thanks, SImon, very helpful. And true that but I live in a warmer climate where it really doesn’t get *THAT* cold. And as I’m hoping I can wear this year ’round, it’s more important to me that it performs well in heat and humidity, which I think it will due to its open weave and breathability. And yet it doesn’t seem to be too lightweight and flimsy like many summer jackets are–it still has some weight, body, and heft to it. That’s why I like it for year ’round wear.
Right, I think you’re on the right track then
Thanks. And your point on suiting v. jacketing is well taken. I am suspicious of fresco jacketing–it’s often too smooth, fine, and similar to a suit to work as jacketing. So I think you’re right there. For a summer sport coat, I think the best way to go is with some blend of wool/silk/linen, as it avoids any association with suiting, has a clear summery feel, and still works with a wide variety of trousers (including fresco)
Simon – while we’re on the topic, do you have a favorite summer weight navy sport coat fabric? A specific bunch or swatch, not category like “hopsack”. Thank you.
No, not really, but hopsacks don’t really vary much in terms of quality, so the bunch isn’t as relevant
Dear Simon,
I wanted to point out that Crispaire is more tightly woven than Fox Air, clearly visible when the samples are in hand. Perhaps this is why crispaire has better wrinkle resistance but nevertheless I will go with Fox air as it should be cooler for a hot summer and the colours are beautiful! Which one do you perceive as the least warm?
Alex
Good point, I hadn’t thought about that. It isn’t necessarily surprising though – generally with high twists, there is a trade-off between the roughness and the breathability. More open, breathable cloths often need to be coarser and stronger so the cloth holds up even with that open weave. So Crispaire isn’t quite as breathable, more smoother than Fresco or Fox Air.
Thank you Simon. Would you say that linings prevent high-twist fabrics from being as breathable as they could be? Do you usually avoid linings for summer suits?
They certainly have some impact, yes, though the fabric is more important. I tend to have summer suits like this half lined.
Hi Simon, I’ve recently been intrigued by the mohair tonik fabric from Dormeiul.
I’ve been looking for a breathable fabric, preferably a high twist to start my bespoke journey. I’ve been considering two of your other recommendations: crispaire and ascot 4 ply by drapers.
I’m not sure where this fabric falls in regards of formalities. I’m sure the community would like to.lesrn more about such a matter. If you would consider addressing this topic in a future post it would be greatly appreciated!
Hi Phong,
I think you’ll find that Tonik with mohair is quite a different look and feel. The mohair makes it quite crispy, and can give it a slight sheen. I doubt those are looks you want.
I’d say it’s more formal that these other high-twist options, but also with those characteristics. I think you’d be safer going with one of the other two high twists.
S
Hi Simon, do you know the fabric code for Drapers 4-ply in plain mid-grey?
No, sorry
Hi Simon,
Would a tan colour fresco jacket be great for a summer wardrobe addition where one can wear with off white and grey trousers?
The colour would be nice, but I’d avoid fresco for a jacket
Hi Simon,
Would a pale blue colour crispaire fabric for a jacket would be acceptable to wear with grey and cream trousers or would you look for texture?
I wouldn’t want Crispaire in a Summer jacket, no
Hi Simon, how does VBC’s Spring 4-ply (https://vitalebarberiscanonico.com/fabrics/21-micron/spring-4-ply/) compare with Draper’s 4-ply? Thanks
It’s the same.
VBC isn’t really a merchant – it doesn’t sell its cloth that much by the cut length. It’s a mill and mostly it sells large volumes to brands.
Drapers is a merchant, not a mill, and is owned by VBC. It sells cloths other than those from VBC, but many of them are the same.
Thanks for your advice. Interesting that the VBC 4-ply is exactly the same as the Drapers 4-ply, but the latter cost quite a bit more.
One more layer in the process. Also, as mentioned, VBC isn’t necessarily available everywhere
Dear Simon,
Thank you for your helpful articles. What do you think is the best weight for a high-twist fabric for odd summer trousers? Should I pick the heaviest weight I can choose, like flannel?
and may I ask what you think about those cloths for summer odd trousers(and which of the two do you recommend more? and any other recommendations besides these two would be appreciated.):
Summer weather here is usually between 30℃ and 40℃, and these will be my first high-twist trousers, so I hope those pants be versatile.
Best,
You don’t have to go too heavy – anything 9-11oz should be fine. Of the various high-twists, my favourite is probably Crispaire, or Drapers 4-ply. And I’d go for a mid-grey if it’s your first pair
Following up on this, Simon, have you found any difference between Drapers 4-ply and Finmeresco 4-ply? They are the same weight and look remarkably similar, including on the pattern/design. Could they be the same product sold under different brands? Thanks.
Possibly, yes. Both are merchants and might be buying from VBC, though I thought Finmeresco was different. I haven’t tried it though so can’t say
Different tailors have informed me on separate occasions that the Ascot and Finmeresco bunches are largely the same VBC-made fabrics, sold through Drapers and Smith respectively.
A lot of them are made by VBC, but I’d be careful assuming that the fabrics are therefore exactly the same ones.
Thanks for the reply! I was worried that the 9oz would be too light. but I was wrong.
Hi Simon, I’m looking on VBC 4ply/6ply, Taylor & Lodge 4ply, Marling Evans 6ply, Spring Ram and Finmeresco. Just wondering which is the smoothest one of them? Thanks Chauncey.
I haven’t tried the Marling & Evans or the Taylor & Lodge, but from the others I’d say probably the VBC
I’m looking on VBC 4ply, 9oz & 14oz Fresco and Spring Ram. May I ask which one do you think is the coolest and most breathable cloths?
I find them all quite breathable, but the VBC the nicest to wear
Simon-
I recall from a post earlier in the year that you had a pair of trousers made up in the olive/green Fox Air. I have a suit made in the mid-grey and I’m partial to the fabric. Do you think the olive would work well as a summer suit (probably from Solito or another Italian tailor)? I would generally be cautious of a green suit but the olive is very muted and tasteful. Thanks.
I think that colour would work very well, yes
I actually made a forest green Crispaire suit with Solito and it’s great. The green is so dark it looks like charcoal, but it’s not. It’s green, which makes it more interesting. Only problem with the suit is I didn’t realize Crispaire is a misnomer. The cloth doesn’t breath well and wears hotter than I anticipated. I’d go with a different high twist if I did it again. Or Fox City which has some terrific greens.
https://apparel.hollandandsherry.com/en/fabric/use/suits/3321061-crispaire-forest-green-solid
You mention Harrisons Frontier. I think it looks like a very nice cloth for a standard suit. Do you have any experience with it?
No, sorry
Drapers/Ascot has a 6-ply high-twist in 480 gram (18067). Do you think that would be a good cloth for a DB suit. I will wear it all seasons except summer. An alternative that I am looking for is the English Town Classics in a 400 gram twill (9444).
Another question. Would you have flaps, jetted or patch pockets on at DB suit jacket that you want to be able to wear “orphaned”?
I’ve never worn a really heavy high-twist like that in cold weather, but I’d be afraid that wind would go through it easily, as it’s designed to do, making it pretty chilly to wear. Particularly in Sweden, as I believe you are Carl.
I’d go for patches or jetted, but it’s a relatively small point compared to the material
Hi Simon,
May I ask for your suggestion in choosing a suit cloth as I am struggling to choose one for my brother’s wedding this coming October.
Obviously, I don’t want to stand out but still want to look good, so I have narrowed it down to navy or charcoal. Most importantly, I want to be able to wear it well after the wedding, hopefully four seasons (at least three) and the only other suit I have is in mid grey.
I was considering a Scottish high twisted wool (Lovat Bard bunch) as it looked quite a but denser than other high twists to me, which may work for the winter. However, after reading this article, maybe not.
I understand that no cloths are precisely for four seasons but if it were you which cloth would you go for? Would you avoid something like high twists?
Many thanks,
Jack
Hi Jack,
I would, personally. If you want something you’re going to wear afterwards (always a bit of a compromise with the non-business feel of a wedding) then I’d go with a more standard smooth worsted. You’re more likely to wear it more often I suspect.
To be honest, the mid-grey also sounds like the better bet for a wedding. That usually looks a little less office-like.
Thanks, Simon, for your prompt response. I just wanted to ask if you have your go-to bunch or bunches of worsted wool you could suggest?
Not really, there are so many. I’d go for something English like Lesser’s or Smith’s if you want a slightly firmer, sharper make, and perhaps Italian like Loro Piana or Drapers for a lighter, sometimes more luxurious one. But really you’re looking at weight and weave, not a brand name. There is a guide to suiting like that here if helpful.
Thanks, that is helpful indeed.
If I may ask one more question, do you think English cloths could work better with English tailors’ suits and vice versa? For instance, Huntsman with Smith rather than Ciardi with Smith? or are they not related much?
I wouldn’t say they are that related, no. The only question is sometimes one of lightness and fineness. If Huntsman only does one construction, with lots of padding and canvas, then you could argue there’s no point given them a lightweight, summer material.
Many thanks, Simon.
Hi Simon
Want to check with you if high twist wools makes a suit less formal than normal worsted given the texture they give is usually less sleek?
Best
Yes, it is a little less formal. But it’s a small thing – I might consider it a factor if I was doing something like trying to be particularly formal for a wedding, or a really smart business suit, but only then
Thank you Simon, still good for a normal business suit though?
Yes I would say so
Thanks again Simon
Hi Simon, I was re-reading this post again because I’m wondering which high twist will work best for me. I am quite sensitive to certain textures and concerned by high twist fabrics being too scratchy. I recently got a suit made from Dugdale’s Tropicalair and although the fabric performs well I am finding the texture difficult to cope with, although I am hoping it will soften up over time as I wear it more. Are any of the high twist fabrics less scratchy, or am I just best off finding a different summer suiting fabric?
Some of them are, yes. There’s a bit of a balance there to find as ones that are less coarse will be less scratchy but also not quite as breathable or wrinkle a little more. Try Crispaire from Holland & Sherry
Thank you Simon. A mistake I keep falling into with tailoring is wanting the perfect fabric – in this case breathable, soft, wrinkle resistant and some surface texture or visual interest. I keep having to remind myself that there sometimes has to be a compromise between those properties. Crispaire sounds like a good option for me though.
I’d vouch for the Ascot 4-ply. I have a suit in that fabric and it isn’t at all scratchy, doesn’t wrinkle, and is very breathable in the heat.
Thank you for the suggestion. I had been wondering about that one, as it sounds like a good option. I was sceptical whether it could still be comfortable in hot weather given its weight but it seems it is.
Hi Simon,
I was wondering whether you think wearing differently textured high twists as a separate would look okay. For instance, a brown jacket in high twists from an Italian mill and a grey pair of trousers in high twists from an English mill.
Many thanks,
Jack
If the two were very different in texture, perhaps yes. But most high twists don’t make great jackets – they’re better for suits. What high twist did you have in mind for the jacket?
I was considering one from the Ascot 6ply(16oz) or Frasco III bunches.
I saw a finished product made from the Ascot 6ply the other day, and I felt it had quite a bit of texture which I thought might look fine for a separate. Also, I liked that greyish brown.
Do you think I should look for something else? I have attached a photo of the cloth below for your reference.
I think so, yes Jack. That material is intended for a suit or trousers. It is sharp and could easily look like part of a suit
Are you familiar with the Ascot 6 ply? Would you wear it in fall or winter, or is it too breezy? Thanks.
I wouldn’t really wear any high-twist in winter, myself. The point of the material is to let air through easily, and you really feel any cold wind.
Hi Simon, have you tried Airesco? If so, how do you think it performs compared with Ascot 4-ply? By the way a similar article about flannel bunches would be most interesting and welcome.
I haven’t, sorry.
On flannels, I don’t find they vary that much. Fox is the best, really. It’s usually denser. Those woven in England are second, and everything Italian is softer but holds its shape less
Thanks!
Hi Simon,
wonderfully informative article, as always!
Can you advise, what cloth (preferably lightweight) would be the best, if crease-resistance while travelling (folded into a suitcase, no garment bag) is the main goal?
I’m thinking about getting several suits for travelling made in the lower price range, either MTM or lower-end bespoke. MTM offerings with VBC ‘Tropical’ and ‘Traveller’ seem to be the most attractive price-wise, but I couldn’t find any more detailled information about those cloths. Do you have any advice, whether there would be a significant difference in crease resistance between a regular ‘tropical wool’ and something like H&S Eco Traveller or Standeven Explorer?
Also, more generally, is the crease-resistance of ‘traveller’ fabrics and other high-twist cloths in your opinion significant enough, that packing and travelling really becomes much easier?
(With shirts for example I find that most of my non-iron shirts really don’t need ironing, especially if worn casually, and also don’t crease very much, even when somewhat carelessly packed into a suitcase. My so-called easy-iron shirts on the other hand are useless without ironing, crease easily if not packed ideally and therefore have no advantage for me over untreated shirts.)
Thank you!
It’s very hard to say much on the first point, Mat, because a ‘tropical’ or ‘traveller’ description for a cloth could mean a bunch of different things – probably high twist, but not necessarily that much, probably lighter but not necessarily, and so on.
And yes, they can make a big difference, but if you want that big difference you often end up sacrificing weight or smoothness. Ones that really perform are a little heavier, and a little scratchier.
Wondering if Crispaire and Ascot 4-ply remain your preferred high twists?
I quite like the Fox Air fabrics – just wondering how scratchy it is?
Also, how is the Ascot 4-ply in very hot weather (say >30C)?
Yes they are, personally. I found Fox Air to wrinkle too much for me, but then that’s always a balance.
If you’re above 30 degrees I might go for the Ascot 2-ply instead, but it does depend whether it’s a suit or trousers, and how hot you tend to get generally. I don’t get as hot or sweat as much as some people, and materials are easier in trousers as you generate less heat there.
Thank you! Does the Fox Air wrinkle more than a typical fine worsted? And is it scratchy at all?
I think so, yes. But no, not scratchy for a high-twist
Thanks again! Apologies, one last question – I’m wondering how distinct in appearance these fabrics are from a typical worsted, once made up (I’m interested in trousers). I have not seen them in the flesh, but from images of finished trousers online they look like they could be the orphaned half of a suit (particularly the Crispaire) which I’m keen to avoid. Clearly they work for you, but I’m wondering how much separation there truly is between these and a typical worsted.
It gets less the less coarse the twist is (away from Fresco, towards Crispaire) but I still think there is a difference and is doesn’t look like it’s missing a jacket
Thank you
Hi Simon, would the high-twist trousers go well with a dark brown linen jacket? As the linen is the material which creases much, and the high twist wool relatively creases much less. Would they look mismatched?
Many thanks,
Jack
No that combination is usually fine – perhaps try slightly heavier linens. Also colour, with the trousers not being too smart a colour
Okay, thanks, Simon.
Hello Simon,
I am getting married April 22. in Alfriston, East Sussex.
We want an informal wedding and have written something like “nice without a tie” in our invitation as a dress code. I started out thinking I wanted a nice linen suit, perhaps in a dark green. But as my Wife to be has ordered a nice formal white dress I am thinking I have to match her with something slightly more formal.
I am enjoying the process and after trawling your impressive and thorough website for inspiration and knowledge. I believe I have landed on a dark navy MTM suit. Single breasted with patch pockets. Either in Holland & Sherry Crispaire or Fox Brothers City Fox ( it seems you prefer the Crispaire in this particular cloth). My plan is to go as dark navy as possible but I am nervous it would end up a bit to businesslike. Would you recommend a slightly lighter blue or is dark still the safest bet?
My feeling is that this is a bit of a boring choice but perhaps still very safe and elegant.
Thank you for an extremely inspiring website and hope to hear from you if you find some time.
All the best
Nicolay Jacobsen, Oslo, Norway.
Hi Nicolay,
That does sound nice, but I think could be a little bit boring, particularly without a tie. Would a mid- to light grey work? That would feel much more appropriate to a wedding, and work with the dress too. There is a section here on weddings by the way, just in case you haven’t seen it.
Hello again Simon and thank you for your reply,
I am now slowly maturing the Idea of going grey, as you suggest. I also think I will be wearing a knitted silk tie, either way.
I have a navy flannel suit and a navy cotton suit allready, which adds to the number of reasons for going gray. I am currently looking at a solid gray Crispaire. I think that will look very nice with a crisp white shirt and a navy or black knitted silk tie. And perhaps a pair of dark brown JM Weston loafers.
My MTM guy here in Oslo carries the Crispaire cloth but also a lot of other cloths. Would you say that a solid grey Crispaire (3321045) would be a good choice or should a go one last round of cloths ?
I really appreciate your guidance and I am sure I will end up happy In both Navy and Grey, although right now grey seems like a more fun choice.
Thank you in advance
Best regards
Nicolay
Pleased I could help Nicolay. Yes, Crispaire would be great
Great, thank you. Would you approve solid grey or go a tad lighter ?
Nicolay
I’d say tad lighter, presuming you can still wear it in a business-type scenario and so use it later
Simon, I am tossing up two cloth options in my head. I have a suit already made up in Ascot 4-ply grey (mentioned below in the comments). It is 4-ply, 370g/m, all seasons, plain weave (you have a charcoal suit in this exact fabric). I am wanting a brown suit made for work, and contemplating the exact same fabric, but in brown. Whilst I love the fabric, I think it might be a tad boring having two suits that are the same in every way except for the colour. I was thinking of switching to the Greenhills Super 160’s book. It is worsted, with a diagonal weave, all seasons, and is 230 g/m. What would you choose, and how would you decide between the two and do you have any other considerations to share (this is dark brown and for work)?
I don’t know that bunch Michael, but it sounds rather more sleek than the Ascot. I think it would look rather different – sharper, but perhaps flashier too. I think it’s up to you whether you think that would fit well with your office environment.
I’d also say that I think it’s worth erring on the side of caution with a more unusual colour, like brown. At least unusual in a suit for an office
Thank you, as always, Simon.
When I say brown, I mean very dark brown, like 40036 in this picture: https://drapersitaly.it/gb-en/collection/40036/ . Surely that is conservative enough? I guess the choice I am facing is whether to go for a more textured 4-ply suit, or a more ‘typical’, ‘sharp’ suit.
Can you see any downsides with going the 40036 over the 4-ply? If you get it fully lined and a full canvas it should be fine for drape?
It would be fine for drape, yes. And being that dark brown it will certainly be quite conservative. It’s just a question of how unusual it will be in your office – if no one else wears brown suits, it will be unusual even if it’s really dark.
This is the fabric in navy, not in dark brown for context of level of sheen.
Yes that looks pretty shiny Michael, not necessarily bad but a very different look from the high twists like Ascot
Dear Simon,
You write that you prefer H&S crispaire over fresco. I am thinking about getting crispaire trousers but am a little unsure? Is crispaire sufficiently different from worsted?
Kr Markus
Yes it will feel different – whether it’s enough for what you want is hard to say I guess?
I’m going to commission a navy blazer in Finmeresco or Spring Ram, could you give me some suggetions? Finmeresco mockleno?
I’d look at the mockleno, yes. The other two might be better for a suit
Thank you, I go for Finmeresco mockleno SW4143 finally.
Sounds good, let me know how you get on
is 14~15oz fresco an oxymoron (I liv in NYC), I intend it more for 4 season (maybe not the hottest summer), but would it be too cold for winter, too hot for summer so spring/fall only?
I personally think a high twist is too cold in winter, at any weight, so yes I wouldn’t think this was a great option for NYC – the wind will cut right through you in the winter, and it will be heavy in the summer
What would you recommend for winkle resistant ish, close to 4 season, mohair blend in like 9 oz weight?
Well, the mills themselves won’t vary much in quality, if you know that’s what you’re after. I haven’t looked for mohair for a while though I’m afraid
Hi Simon,
I often wear sports jacket(smart casual to semi formal) during summer like around 25c. I used to wear normal worsted cloth and feel a bit hot, does high twist make a huge difference like 30% cooler? If so, Would you recommend me to go for light colour of Crispaire like light blue or Fox air (belge) as sports jacket or single trousers? Which one would you say more casual between the two. Thanks
Hi Jack,
Yes I think it does make that kind of difference. Those materials aren’t so much designed for jackets though – Fox Air is OK, but Crispaire is a bit smoother and sharper, more like a suiting. Look for a hopsack, mesh or mock leno for a similar summer jacketing
Simon, I managed to get some of the plain swatches in the Drapers Ascot 4-PLY 12oz weight in greys navy/blues and brown/beige.
The texture and weaving and a smooth handle is stunning to say the least.
What I thought were subtle greys were actually very cool browns & beige. Absolutely beautiful. Not loud brown colour but exquisitely muted.
I would hope to get a nice pair of trousers for the Summer with these!
I’m sure you’ll quite agree!!
Nice! Yes I do, and glad you were able to see that in person
Forgot to ask – Does this bunch work well for jackets?
Not really, better for suits and trousers
Many thanks
Lindsay
Hi Simon, just wanted to send a quick thank you for this article (and many others). I’ve been really trying to slowly, and strategically build a wardrobe and I took the plunge on my first bespoke jacket. I chose the dark navy from the Fresco III bunch. The jacket is for work, notch lapel, flap pockets and brown horn buttons. Looks great and frankly I’ve been amazed at the subtle beauty of a great cloth. So a big thanks for this article it was very helpful in my cloth selection.
Also, for any readers wondering, I went with my tailor’s recommendation and chose the dark navy. It looked almost black on the swatch but made up a business appropriate navy blue; not black like I’d have thought from the swatch. There was another navy in the bunch which I’d suspect would have been a little too mid-blue for my needs.
Nice, so pleased you’ve enjoyed that difference Simon
Hello Simon,
I have decided to get my first pair of grey high-twist trousers made for this summer. Based on your previous articles, I have decided that the ascot/drapers 4-play would probably be the best choice for this (unless there is another fabric you would recommend over this).
Drapers seems to have two different grey fabrics:
https://drapersitaly.it/us-en/collection/18050/
https://drapersitaly.it/ca-en/collection/18051/
Which do you believe would be the most versatile trouser for summer?
They’d both be good Daniel. I think the darker grey would be smarter, more suited to a professional office. The lighter would be more summery and not quite as formal
Hello Simon,
Do you think wool-mohair fresco would work for a pair of odd grey trousers with a navy Hopsack blazer? Or too much sheen in the trousers? Thanks!
Tom
It depends on how much mohair is in there. Does the material look like it has a sheen when you see the swatch?
Hi Simon,
Just thought I’d jump in on this, as I’ve just commissioned my first bespoke 2-piece navy suit from WW Chan in the Spring Ram 98254.
I had expressed that I lived in FL where it is hot and humid 9 months out of the year and needed something light and breathable. I was leaning toward the Fresco, but Patrick and Arnold highly suggested the Spring Ram despite the extra weight. Their reasoning was that it would conform to the body better, and feel better (not as scratchy). I don’t wear a suit to the office, but I like to dress for occasions like the theater or nicer date-nights, or weddings, etc.
I took their advice, as I feel that expertise is part of the experience, and what you’re paying for. I was curious if you had thoughts on their advice, and the sentiment regarding expertise, in general.
P.S. My basted fitting is at the end of this month.
Hi Mike,
On expertise in general, I agree it’s a wonderful thing and adds to what you can get out of bespoke (similar to what I talk about here with glasses)
However, there are tailors I would take a lot of advice from, and ones I would do so not at all. Basically depending on whether I like their style. With WW Chan, I love the guys but I commissioned there off the basis of Ethan’s style at Bryceland’s feeding into what they do.
S
Thanks for the insight, Simon.
I have no doubts about the style and cut from WW Chan.
Do you think that the 12/13oz Spring Ram will be appreciably more difficult in the hot and humid climate (90F, 32C) than the 9/10oz Fresco?
I think it will be hotter, yes. How much hotter and how much you feel it, though, is a little personal
Thank you for the insight!
If there is interest, I received my commission and it is truly wonderful. WW Chan were kind enough to change the fabric to a dark navy, light weight Huddersfield Fresco III, and the required tweaks are certainly minor. I am thrilled.
Oh good, lovely to hear Mike
Hi Simon,
Been going through this an other old articles as I look to purchase a pair of smarter wool tailored trousers. I usually wear chinos and know little about finer wool fabrics. I would like them to be kind of light (No flannels) but not exclusively for summer use. I visited Fursac store and tried on two pairs
One in fresco Charcoal grey trousers P3VEKO-BC19-24 – Men’s trousers (fursac.com)
One in end-on-end Charcoal Grey Suit Trousers for Men – Fursac P3VOXA-F567-29
Which do you think will be most suitable year-round? In store I was told fresco was summer material and your articles seem to confirm this. But more uncertain about end-on-end – is it as light, also a high-twist?
Best,
Sigurd
Hi Sigurd,
The end-on-end is not a high twist, it’s more a regular suit material. They might be a little better year-round, if you like the darkness of them. Personally I prefer the colour of the fresco though, and it would be fine most of the year
Hi Simon, great article, thanks. I notice you don’t mention Loro Piana Travel Pro. Any experience with or thoughts on that bunch?
No, sorry Angus
Hi Simon. Have you ever made anything for yourself from Harrisons Springram? Or what’s your opinion on navy 16/17oz cloth – would it be good for workhorse suit? Regards Henry
I have. It’s a great cloth, though pretty scratchy. I’d make sure you’ve felt that aspect of it before you had something made in it. But it would be strong certainly
Hi Simon,
I’ve been considering the Ascot Bunch from Draper’s 6 Ply charcoal trouser. Given that it is a high twist but weighs in at 500g, would the fabric be a good option for moderately cold weather? I am located in Atlanta, Georgia, US and it typically doesn’t get colder than 30 degrees. I’ve been looking at flannels, cavalry twills, and covert clothes but found the 6 Ply from Draper’s as an interesting option for 3-4 seasons where I am located.
p.s. I look forward to seeing the guys in NY in October!
Nice, looking forward to seeing you too.
It would be good for the moderate cold, yes, though I think the 4-ply might be a little better. The 6-ply doesn’t really add much warmth but is rather heavier, sharper
Hi Simon,
I am after a high-twist that is such a dark/deep olive that it almost appears grey, if that makes sense? I don’t think there is anything in the Ascot or Fox Air bunch. I am wondering if you can think of a particular cloth?
Thanks!
Hey,
I don’t know anything specific I’m afraid, but there is a brownish, grey olive in the Fox Air bunch. I think that’s the closest I’ve found
Crispaire has a dark hunter green which can read charcoal in some light. But, Crispaire isn’t a particularly crisp or airy cloth.
I don’t know if it will be dark enough for what you are looking for, but you might want to look at the Green Grey (FC3) fabric from Fox City.
Hi Simon,
Today my stylist (I currently do MTM since I cannot afford bespoke yet) presented me with two high twist options they thought I’d like based on my preference for drape, Fresco Lite and Tonik Wool.
They said the Tonik wool would perform better since it has a slightly heavier gsm than Fresco Lite, but it is almost double the price for a pair of trousers that are identical in feel to the later.
In your experience, do you believe that there is some truth to this?
Well, yes a heavier one would perform slightly better, but I wouldn’t pay twice as much for that small difference
Hi again Simon,
I forgot to mention that my other concern about the Dormeuil bunch is that it is worsted wool and I intend on using my selection for my first pair of grey trousers (I’ve become quite excited about the color color addition since we last talked of it haha) . From what I’ve read in your other articles, I gather a worsted wool is too formal for an odd trouser. Would this also be the case with the Tonkin wool?
Hey,
Worsted can be OK for odd trousers – it’s not normally what I’d recommend, but it can be OK if it’s not too fine. Basically not as fine and shiny as a suit trouser, but with a bit more texture. It’s a hard one as difficult to draw a hard line
Hi Simon, great article and I have referred to it on numerous occasions. I am in the midst of selecting a sports coat and odd trousers for the European summer.
what are your thoughts on the Standeven Cape town bunch: navy wool/mohair blend for a sport coat? It is rather light in weight but it is a mesh jacketing variety.
paired with the Fresco lite cloth for trousers in a grey. Again quite light in weight and so I am on the fence about everything being too light weight and not having a nice drape!
would a mockleno (dugdale or drapers or huddersfield fine worstead) work better for a navy sport coat at 310g?
and for trousers – perhaps Standeven explorer at 310g or Fresco/Crispaire?
do you have any other suggestions for an odd trouser/sport coat variation, sport coat cloth with enough texture (mockleno, basketweave, hopsack, mesh) to go with a hightwist which is better paired as a standalone, not too suity.
would be great to receive your input! Many thanks
Hey Roberto,
For the trousers, Fresco Lite would be fine and I wouldn’t worry that it would be too light.
For the jacket, I’m afraid I haven’t tried that bunch but I would worry a little about the mohair mix making it quite sharp. The mesh might make it fine, but if you haven’t seen it made up I would err on the safe side. Mock leno or a mesh would certainly be good
I found Fresco Lite a little scratchy. I’d go with VBC Drapers Ascot 4 ply over that. Very high performing for wrinkles and creasing, great drape, smooth handle. It’s terrific.
Good point Peter. I’d add that it is a touch more smooth and suit-like, but only a touch, and that’s always the trade off with these high twists
Dear Simon,
I want to thank you again for taking the time to demystify the world of fabric, weights and threads. For someone like me who likes nice things and is building out a wardrobe it’s certainly a big help.
I know you may have already answered similar questions, so I apologize in advance for any repetition.
I work in finance in Zurich and this have to wear a suit and tie to work everyday and it can get pretty hot here in summer with 28-30 Celsius being the average here.
I want to get one blue and one charcoal fresco wool suit, quarter lined of course, that I can also get away with wearing in late spring and early fall. My idea was just to go for the HFW Fresco but I wanted to ask you if I necessarily needed to go for the fresco light or if I could get away with the 10 OZ. I was also thinking about getting the suits made with patch pockets and various matching pants to wear as separates. Any suggestion on the different weights and the upside and downsides of each would be extremely helpful.
If I’m about to make a big mistake on my summer attire don’t hesitate to point it out.
cheers!
I think that sounds pretty good, except the jackets in those materials don’t tend to make good jackets on their own, it’s more just a suit material.
10oz would be fine though I think, you don’t necessarily need to go lighter
Hi Simon, hopefully you are well
Again I have a question, I live in a tropical country and I am about to get a pair of bespoke shoes to be worn with fresco suits (navy & charcoal grey). Which shoes do you think is versatile enough to be worn with a fresco suit tieless? Derby perhaps? Brogue or not? Leather or suede?
It would be nice if you write about fresco suits and perhaps how to style them in the future. If you did, could you please put the link here, thank you.
I think a loafer might be nice in that situation Igbal, either leather or suede.
Can I ask why you’re going to go bespoke? Have you done so before?
I have, a pair of black oxford captoe. And also, I have wide feet, It’s difficult for me to find shoes that fit me, yes even training shoes. The best option I have is to actually to go to stores.
OK, good to know. I just find bespoke can be pretty patchy. If you have a bespoke maker that has worked well for you, stick with them
Thank you Simon, is there any shoes beside loafers and monk straps that work well with fresco suits tieless look?
Yes absolutely. An oxford in a casual material like suede could be fine, and a derby too if it was a little smarter
Oxford in suede is something I wouldn’t do… it’s quite often that we have to deal with rain where I live. So I might go for a pair of full grain derby such as this pair of shoes on one of your blogs https://www.permanentstyle.com/2019/09/if-you-only-had-five-shoes-a-capsule-collection.html
Suede is in many ways better in the rain than calf, Iqbal. See article here
Oh wow I didn’t know, thank you. I should read this thank you Simon
No worries. There’s a lot of useful stuff on PS but it takes a search or me pointing it out sometimes to find it.
Also worth looking through what’s in the menu – it’s very deliberately selected, but no everyone looks
You mentioned that a derby too if it was a little smarter could work with a fresco suit. Something like a split-toe derby with leather sole perhaps?
Pic: A pair of espresso calf split-toe derby shoes with rubber sole by Gaziano Girling
Yes, that with a leather sole would be nice.
Shoe type is only one factor that makes something smarter or casual, and that’s a smart material, smart colour, smart shape, smart make etc
Thank you Simon, very detailed explanation
No problem, happy to help
Dear Simon, I find myself going back to previous articles; in anticipation of my first bespoke order
I am considering a simple, single breasted navy suit.
Curious to know if you would rather advise Crispaire of Fresco or an even heavier fabric?
I live in rather cold European capitals and like rather heavy fabrics (mostly tweed and flannels, altered), which I love for their drape. Naturally, I am very keen to the freshness and practicality of high twist bunches. I am just hoping to be able to obtain a nice drape as well.
All things considered, which one would yo advise? Imagine yourself at 28 again, starting over your wardrobe!
Thank you in advance for precious advice.
Hey Nicholas,
Well, those are really summer suiting materials, designed to be breathable and cool. I’m not sure they’re what you want for where you live.
I’d go for a regular suiting, around 11-13oz, from someone like Lesser.
Hi Simon! I was looking to order a lighter tropical wool for a suit given my weather conditions (India – very hot and humid, 43c now). I’d narrowed it down to Drapers 2 ply/lighter Fresco. However, I saw that both of these were offering Panama bunches that they also recommended and were lighter. Request you to please explain the differences/implications – it wasn’t quite clear upon searching and asking around. It seemed that Panama was a different weave but beyond it I wasn’t sure. Thank you!
Yes a panama weave is a type of basket weave. Unless you’ve specifically seen it made up and like the texture, I’d stick with your high twists mentioned
Thank you for the response! Really appreciate it. I’m away from major towns and can’t access samples easily so I was wondering of the 4 options here which was the standard mid-gray starter suit you had in mind in the other capsule? I’d narrowed it down to 18022 and 18023 but wasn’t sure which was closer to the photo on the post. Thank you once again!
Yes, it would be one or other of those. The darker one would be a little bit more business-like, the other a little bit more casual/unusual. But both would be lovely.
If in doubt go for the darker